Orange Street Triple R on Akaroa Highway? (2 January)

[Headbanger]

If it was so good you would have to pass it before getting a licence and with the ACC having a big concern about biker deaths you would think they would be pushing
for it. All the supporters of it on here have said nothing about any positive aspect of it that is not assesed when a practical license test is taken that could save lives if it they were incorporated in the practical riding test. it sounds to me like a course that you would do if you wanted to get into racing.

Seriously?

Competence is the result of training and experience.....

Why the issue with people wanting to raise their competence?

In some areas I have only discovered how badly I have been doing things once I attended the training courses.

Having never once undertaken any motorcycle training, I'd say I'd have a lot to learn even with a couple of decades of bike ownership under my belt.

[Headbanger]

Just out of curiosity, have you done any formal training in (say) the last 5 years? (This isn't a prelude to ripping into you or taking the piss by the way - just an honest question)

You mean in reference to motorcycles?

Nope, never.

Feel free to rip away, Im good for it.

[AllanB]

Heck there is a 'system' now? It's not like those pyramid schemes is it where the rider at the pointy end gets all the goodies and the saps who come it late get to fall off?

I've been off the bike for a couple weeks (family hols) and I'll most likely hit that road tomorrow - it will start off casual, heat up, get loose then settle down again. Please don't video it!

[James Deuce]

If it was so good you would have to pass it before getting a licence and with the ACC having a big concern about biker deaths you would think they would be pushing
for it. All the supporters of it on here have said nothing about any positive aspect of it that is not assesed when a practical license test is taken that could save lives if it they were incorporated in the practical riding test. it sounds to me like a course that you would do if you wanted to get into racing.

Lol. The last thing any Government wants is a competent driver base. There is a firm belief in NZ that advanced training simply enables drivers and riders to travel at much greater speeds competently thereby making the accident bigger. IAM Roadcraft is based on UK Police roadcraft guidelines. It has substantial literature and practical guidelines thereby rendering it uninteresting to the LTNZ, particularly as its testing guidelines insist on independence from Government intervention thereby qualifying it as non-revenue raising advanced rider training.

Bear in mind that the economic impact of requiring that level of driver training in NZ would be huge as I'd estimate that 98% of the population is uninterested in learning anything about driving on the road in the midst of other other road users and of the remaining 2% who claim to be interested in advanced training, 98% of them are only interested supervised track days where they can come away making grandiose claims about their mad racing skills without ever actually experiencing competitive motorsport. The roads in NZ would be either largely empty or infested with unlicensed drivers as no Kiwi will take having their penis or vagina size relative to their driving skills questioned.

[Hawk]

hey muppet, next time you decided to post such a controversial topic please provide more popcorn for us thread lurkers especially if it goes so ot as this one has

[Ocean1]

Lol. The last thing any Government wants is a competent driver base. There is a firm belief in NZ that advanced training simply enables drivers and riders to travel at much greater speeds competently thereby making the accident bigger. IAM Roadcraft is based on UK Police roadcraft guidelines. It has substantial literature and practical guidelines thereby rendering it uninteresting to the LTNZ, particularly as its testing guidelines insist on independence from Government intervention thereby qualifying it as non-revenue raising advanced rider training.

Bear in mind that the economic impact of requiring that level of driver training in NZ would be huge as I'd estimate that 98% of the population is uninterested in learning anything about driving on the road in the midst of other other road users and of the remaining 2% who claim to be interested in advanced training, 98% of them are only interested supervised track days where they can come away making grandiose claims about their mad racing skills without ever actually experiencing competitive motorsport. The roads in NZ would be either largely empty or infested with unlicensed drivers as no Kiwi will take having their penis or vagina size relative to their driving skills questioned.

Hit the nail nicely there dude.

And even without input from govt, (who are after all simply amplifying the public outrage at any rabble rousing by the press) you're still left with a compromise between productivity and safety.

And that's a road every safety authority in the country is hurtling down absolutely blinded by the fact that they don't have to consider the cost of compliance with anything safety related.

[Katman]

it sounds to me like a course that you would do if you wanted to get into racing.

Seriously man, nothing could be further from the truth.

[Blackbird]

You mean in reference to motorcycles?

Nope, never.

Feel free to rip away, Im good for it.

Nope, no ripping! Several of the other posters mentioned their dislike of introductions like "I've been riding for 38 years......". Not that I've use the phrase in that way but last year, I clocked up 50 years of riding. I reckon that I learned plenty in the first 5 years, narrowly survived them and almost certainly perpetuated the same bad habits from then until 2003 when owning a Blackbird really showed up my deficiencies. Took a 1 day advanced course in 2003 which showed up some serious shortcomings and I learned heaps. Trouble is, those skills fall away if they're not refreshed and I started falling into bad habits again. Bit the bullet in 2011 and joined IAM. Major ego damage to start with but the continuous nature of the Roadcraft coaching has done exactly what Rastuscat mentioned - made it totally subconscious. There's no doubt it's made me a better rider and has prolonged my riding career. This isn't a push for IAM as it won't suit everyone and riders have to make their own decisions. Just making the point that the average rider can lift their game by a big margin, even old farts like me with decent quality training!

[Howie]

I've been following this thread with a bit of interest as it grown into a discussion about "IAM" training and the Roadcraft system it is based on.

personally I believe any training can be positive if it is well researched and presented correctly.

on another note do the pdf downloads available here http://www.think.norfolk.gov.uk/moto...ills-downloads give a reasonable introduction to what the Roadcraft principles used by "IAM" are about?

[James Deuce]

It's based on this.

http://www.roadcraft.co.uk/motorcycle-roadcraft

[Howie]

It's based on this.

http://www.roadcraft.co.uk/motorcycle-roadcraft

Which is what the downloads I pointed to are based on but give more detail

[Blackbird]

Can you actually describe what they said you were doing wrong and how they got you to correct? Or do you not want to give out advise for free that you had to pay for?

I won't because to get you to understand, I'd probably have to write a book and I'm still not sure whether you're just a troll. If you're genuine, look at the summary of these two blog posts which summarises part of my experience as they might help:

http://geoffjames.blogspot.co.nz/201...sterclass.html

http://geoffjames.blogspot.co.nz/201...ills-some.html

I'd like to make the point again that I did it for me because I knew I had heaps to learn and wanted to improve - a totally personal thing. As I've said before, it won't suit everyone and I'm not a bloody evangelist. At present, IAM isn't taking on any more applicants in Wellington and the Auckland/Waikato region until the backlog of applicants ease but there may be vacancies in Canterbury. If you want your own skill base assessed, register your interest on the website (http://www.nz-iam.org.nz/) or simply go to a reputable commercial trainer in your area if you're serious about lifting your game. And seeing as this thread is so far off track from Muppet's intent, I've done my dash now - no more

[James Deuce]

What Blackbird keeps failing to mention is that the assessment is FUN! Plus you'll probably know half the people you end up riding with anyway.

[skippa1]

If it was so good you would have to pass it before getting a licence and with the ACC having a big concern about biker deaths you would think they would be pushing
for it. All the supporters of it on here have said nothing about any positive aspect of it that is not assesed when a practical license test is taken that could save lives if it they were incorporated in the practical riding test. it sounds to me like a course that you would do if you wanted to get into racing.

Fuck you waffle on

[Big Dave]

Did he done a skid?