Orange Street Triple R on Akaroa Highway? (2 January)

[rastuscat]

Sorry mate that doesn't sound like a competition. More like a couple of mates riding/driving at a good comfortable clip is about it.

You're right. It wasn't a competition. Just an honest comparison.

BTW these new coloured marked patrol cars are hard to see. Be careful.

[pritch]

BTW these new coloured marked patrol cars are hard to see. Be careful.

You may be right, they must be very hard to see. Certainly I have never seen a single one.

[AllanB]

Mrs B has just told me I'll be hauling the trailer north soon on our second bite of family hols (apparently my gals need more shit than they took south last week!). Pisses me off the speed limit is 90 with a trailer...... cruise control will be set slightly higher, too allow for speedo error you understand officer.

I'll be sticking to my side of the road. You lot keep on yours please.

[Gremlin]

Thanks for pointing out that hazard identification is a vital part of it although it is already something they assess you on in the practical license test anyway.

On that point, I actually disagree with the practical licence test. They specifically mention that inanimate objects on the road side are not a hazard. A hedge is a hazard, as it affects your visibility. A parked car in a driveway could have a child playing around it. Simple things like that.

Remember that IAM is not a replacement or used for the licence tests, it's only something you do after completing the licences, and have some experience under your belt.

There is no secret society, it was actually profiled in a recent copy (2013) of an NZ bike mag (I forget which). It's not in your face as we simply don't have the capacity to be inundated with requests (and the waiting list exists already). The aim is, in due course, to be more visible, but again, capacity. The standard will not be compromised, so it takes longer to get there, quality not quantity. For those that are interested (like I was) you find it if you're looking (or in my case, reading blogs of a couple of guys).

I think the number of people that have actually met the standard on first assessment has been very low, even UK riders that were police or IAM UK. Bear in mind that our road rules also differ, and this has an impact on the riding.

I can't imagine why you'd want simple instruction for a complex topic? Everything is broken down, one of the skills an Observer needs is to be able to pass on knowledge in a way that works for the associate. I can't really think of any situation I've seen where the feedback wasn't understood, and if it wasn't, then it's explained until it does. After all, everyone is there to help, work together etc. There is no impressing others, room for egos or showing off.

One of the key things when learning, is not to attempt everything at once. We start with basic elements, and once correct, work on the specifics, then pull it all together into the ride.

[nzspokes]

Thanks for pointing out that hazard identification is a vital part of it although it is already something they assess you on in the practical license test anyway. I will have a look at the links posted to see anything of interest I was not aware of in terms of bike riding. Hazard Identification was one thing I am aware of otherwise I would not have lasted this long riding. Not all hazards can be identified in advance anyway and that is the reason why such a course would not make me feel any safer than now.

After having done a short course with the head IAM guy, I can say there is no correlation between the license test and the IAM method. When riding in behind him with a headset on he was picking hazards constantly on a country road.

[roogazza]

I rode my 1200RT through the hills south of Wakefield last evening. ESA set for me, Mrs Cat and our luggage, and set to sports setting.

I was following one of the new orange SV6 marked patrol cars, driven by an ex Brit Popo Highway Cop. The car has the coolest suspension. He's an advanced driver, and he knew I was there follwing him. He's a mate, we stayed at his place last night.

We sat between 85 and 100 through about 30 km of twisties. I didnt have to try hard to keep up, and he told me later that he was trying to not brake, despite pushing it a bit.

I tried nor to brake too. Smoothe is the new fadt when Mrs Cat is onboard.

My 4 year old tourer with mid level power , two up and with full luggage competed well with a new (smelled new inside) sports pac SV6.

Bikes corner better than cars. They accelerate better out too. And are more fun too. IMHO.

Most cars dont handle like Godzillas or Evos.

I get what you are trying to convey there Rast.
I haven't read all of this thread and probably should have,( but it lost me when it got a bit agro and macho)
This IAM system for bike riding seems as far as I can see similar to the Hendon Police Driving System ? No ?
Now I'm going back to pre 1985, but in those days we modeled our Police driving standards partly on that system. Anticipation of Hazards, Ten to Two drive position, etc etc. The English system actually advised and we taught, straightening out a piece of road where you could see through, apex to apex !! I remember demonstrating that going over the Rimutukas here in Wgton.
I wonder what is taught nowdays ? I should one day go to the College and see for myself.

[R650R]

Mrs B has just told me I'll be hauling the trailer north soon on our second bite of family hols (apparently my gals need more shit than they took south last week!). Pisses me off the speed limit is 90 with a trailer...... cruise control will be set slightly higher, too allow for speedo error you understand officer.

I'll be sticking to my side of the road. You lot keep on yours please.

Unfortunately many of our car trailers in NZ are primitive homebuilt stuff and often overloaded for either the trailer or the cars tow rating. I think it should never have been raised from 80 having witnessed a combination lose control and get dragged of the road backwards near Maramarua golf course SH2 narrowly avoiding a head on. I'd been following them since mway and nothing wrong with their driving, avg 80-85.
Then there was the twat in Hilux who tried to pass my b-train down hill, light load so was doing 90ish. He was doing 110 ish when he started to lose control, accelerated to try save it and doing about 120 when he got back in our lane. It was so ugly I think he would have been buying new seat covers and floor mats at Taupo...
I've just realised I've had 'driver training' back in my early days of linehaul. New employees got tested every 3 months, you then went to a 6, 12 or 24 month rating depending on what you took in. Basically the same stuff and maybe better as what we've seen in these vid links and the small nuggets some have released (why does it have to be a secret what you have learnt?).
We have a bad habit in NZ of only looking about two seconds ahead as that's what the roadcode recommends for safe following distance etc. It was drummed into me pretty quick in truck to be looking 12 seconds ahead looking for and planning for hazard situations. The instructors were great and we were told to drive as we normally did other wise the training/assesment was a waste, so if you needed to speed or be overloaded that was just part of business as usual in those days. Anyway a lot of that training transferred to bikes and cars so prob why I snub my nose at these basic acc courses as their probably entry level stuff dumbed down from what I've had.
The company also had covert driver assessment involving entrapment situations after 0800 complaints but that's a story for another day over a beer or two LOL...

[george formby]

I get what you are trying to convey there Rast.
I haven't read all of this thread and probably should have,( but it lost me when it got a bit agro and macho)
This IAM system for bike riding seems as far as I can see similar to the Hendon Police Driving System ? No ?
Now I'm going back to pre 1985, but in those days we modeled our Police driving standards partly on that system. Anticipation of Hazards, Ten to Two drive position, etc etc. The English system actually advised and we taught, straightening out a piece of road where you could see through, apex to apex !! I remember demonstrating that going over the Rimutukas here in Wgton.
I wonder what is taught nowdays ? I should one day go to the College and see for myself.

That is what I spent a weekend doing a bajillion years ago in blighty. Taught lots of cool things like "making progress", using the throttle to stay in space, "stopping in the distance you can see to be clear" even using the wrong lane through a corner if your chasing bad guys. You were marked down for being to slow or not using space on the road efficiently (filtering....).

[MVnut]

On that point, I actually disagree with the practical licence test. They specifically mention that inanimate objects on the road side are not a hazard. A hedge is a hazard, as it affects your visibility. A parked car in a driveway could have a child playing around it. Simple things like that.

Remember that IAM is not a replacement or used for the licence tests, it's only something you do after completing the licences, and have some experience under your belt.

There is no secret society, it was actually profiled in a recent copy (2013) of an NZ bike mag (I forget which). It's not in your face as we simply don't have the capacity to be inundated with requests (and the waiting list exists already). The aim is, in due course, to be more visible, but again, capacity. The standard will not be compromised, so it takes longer to get there, quality not quantity. For those that are interested (like I was) you find it if you're looking (or in my case, reading blogs of a couple of guys).

I think the number of people that have actually met the standard on first assessment has been very low, even UK riders that were police or IAM UK. Bear in mind that our road rules also differ, and this has an impact on the riding.

I can't imagine why you'd want simple instruction for a complex topic? Everything is broken down, one of the skills an Observer needs is to be able to pass on knowledge in a way that works for the associate. I can't really think of any situation I've seen where the feedback wasn't understood, and if it wasn't, then it's explained until it does. After all, everyone is there to help, work together etc. There is no impressing others, room for egos or showing off.

One of the key things when learning, is not to attempt everything at once. We start with basic elements, and once correct, work on the specifics, then pull it all together into the ride.

There is a big difference between a hazard and an inanimate object that may conceal a hazard

[MVnut]

Did he done a skid?

Dont think he dunna skid, nowhere does it mention he dunna skid

[dangerous]

man... this is more like a bloody old ladies knitting club, has KB become this or was it always and Ive turned into a grumpy old ginger prick, ohh wait... I always was. These topics used to only get as far south as the bombays.

You road edge debri girls... what do ya do when you get to road works or a shingle road??? get off and push!
When people say 'to the road edge" I thats I dont think they mean to the farking grass verge... left hand tyre track perhaps aye.

Muppit ya muppit, yeah I know we have had our differances, but ya right about the triple R's lines. I promote similer lines cos with out seeing the vid I cant really comment as we all have different ideas of 'safe' or lines.
I believe in 'late apex' learnt this years ago on the track, so race lines and road lines can be mixed to get a ideal line... REMEMBER what works for me may not for another, we all have our ideas, basicly right hander sit in the left tyre track, lefties sit in the right tyre track, I have had many a sucess with rider coaching one girl is now suceeding in the Aussie SBK, not saying that is all my doing.

mupet says, the triple R was fast, Cesna says fast if dangerous... so is walking, best ya stay at home, no wait the ceiling might fall in.

Well I only reed the 1st 2 pages duno what else was said in 12 pages... might go hooning 75, come chase me Mupet... if the bitch of a thing starts.


PS: you debri worry worts... whose the boss you or ya bike?
if ya get cought up in shit take charge (altho ya should have never not been in charge) and ride out of it, bike goes were you tell it.

[Ender EnZed]

I rode my 1200RT through the hills south of Wakefield last evening. ESA set for me, Mrs Cat and our luggage, and set to sports setting.

I was following one of the new orange SV6 marked patrol cars, driven by an ex Brit Popo Highway Cop. The car has the coolest suspension. He's an advanced driver, and he knew I was there follwing him. He's a mate, we stayed at his place last night.

We sat between 85 and 100 through about 30 km of twisties. I didnt have to try hard to keep up, and he told me later that he was trying to not brake, despite pushing it a bit.

I tried nor to brake too. Smoothe is the new fadt when Mrs Cat is onboard.

My 4 year old tourer with mid level power , two up and with full luggage competed well with a new (smelled new inside) sports pac SV6.

Bikes corner better than cars. They accelerate better out too. And are more fun too. IMHO.

Most cars dont handle like Godzillas or Evos.

Bikes have a shit load more engine braking than cars. He was trying not to brake which limited his useable rate of deceleration to much less than yours. If he was making a conscious effort to keep it under 100 as well then he'd need to be letting off the throttle much earlier than you every time it was necessary. Hardly a fair comparison when actually driving the car would see it slowing down faster than most bikes.

I would have thought that in a pursuit situation in town with short straights and lots of intersections that need to be seen to be clear before proceeding through then an SV6 would be so much faster you wouldn't be able to see him after the 3rd corner.

[george formby]

man... this is more like a bloody old ladies knitting club, has KB become this or was it always and Ive turned into a grumpy old ginger prick, ohh wait... I always was. These topics used to only get as far south as the bombays.

You road edge debri girls... what do ya do when you get to road works or a shingle road??? get off and push!
When people say 'to the road edge" I thats I dont think they mean to the farking grass verge... left hand tyre track perhaps aye.

Muppit ya muppit, yeah I know we have had our differances, but ya right about the triple R's lines. I promote similer lines cos with out seeing the vid I cant really comment as we all have different ideas of 'safe' or lines.
I believe in 'late apex' learnt this years ago on the track, so race lines and road lines can be mixed to get a ideal line... REMEMBER what works for me may not for another, we all have our ideas, basicly right hander sit in the left tyre track, lefties sit in the right tyre track, I have had many a sucess with rider coaching one girl is now suceeding in the Aussie SBK, not saying that is all my doing.

mupet says, the triple R was fast, Cesna says fast if dangerous... so is walking, best ya stay at home, no wait the ceiling might fall in.

Well I only reed the 1st 2 pages duno what else was said in 12 pages... might go hooning 75, come chase me Mupet... if the bitch of a thing starts.


PS: you debri worry worts... whose the boss you or ya bike?
if ya get cought up in shit take charge (altho ya should have never not been in charge) and ride out of it, bike goes were you tell it.

I tried so hard to avoid par taking of this thread but. Yeah.

[BigAl]

man... this is more like a bloody old ladies knitting club, has KB become this or was it always and Ive turned into a grumpy old ginger prick, ohh wait... I always was. These topics used to only get as far south as the bombays.

You road edge debri girls... what do ya do when you get to road works or a shingle road??? get off and push!
When people say 'to the road edge" I thats I dont think they mean to the farking grass verge... left hand tyre track perhaps aye.

Muppit ya muppit, yeah I know we have had our differances, but ya right about the triple R's lines. I promote similer lines cos with out seeing the vid I cant really comment as we all have different ideas of 'safe' or lines.
I believe in 'late apex' learnt this years ago on the track, so race lines and road lines can be mixed to get a ideal line... REMEMBER what works for me may not for another, we all have our ideas, basicly right hander sit in the left tyre track, lefties sit in the right tyre track, I have had many a sucess with rider coaching one girl is now suceeding in the Aussie SBK, not saying that is all my doing.

mupet says, the triple R was fast, Cesna says fast if dangerous... so is walking, best ya stay at home, no wait the ceiling might fall in.

Well I only reed the 1st 2 pages duno what else was said in 12 pages... might go hooning 75, come chase me Mupet... if the bitch of a thing starts.


PS: you debri worry worts... whose the boss you or ya bike?
if ya get cought up in shit take charge (altho ya should have never not been in charge) and ride out of it, bike goes were you tell it.

Right on the button dangerous. now ladies knit one, pearl one.....

[Crasherfromwayback]

Bikes corner better than cars. They accelerate better out too. And are more fun too. IMHO.

Most cars dont handle like Godzillas or Evos.

Sorry can't agree with you there. Most semi modern even semi sporty cars can go round corners faster than most motorcycles. They don't have to be full on race reps to do so. But if they are really full on...a bike won't see which way one goes through twisty bits sorry.