Orange Street Triple R on Akaroa Highway? (2 January)

[Erelyes]

the other is synonymous with cereal box toys

Especially in the Cretinous period when cassina's licence was issued.

[quickbuck]

Do you get angry with people adding the letter S to those names as well????

Yes, yes I do... It shows a degree of ignorance that I can not tolerate.
Yup, my issue, but I am allowed to feel anger.

Would it not be safer just to spell it correctly and not wind people up (or show ignorance?).

[bluninja]

I read a very true post on here last night that said even if you are the best rider you will not be protected if the following driver drops their cigarette between their legs or texts for that matter coming up behind you.

Hmmmm....lets think this through...you are driving along and there is a car behind you that is closing on you...you check your mirrors and don't see the driver looking ahead cos they are texting, applying makeup, shaving....... pick a driver distraction. You now plan to put yourself in a situation where you are safe; perhaps sound your horn to attract their attention.

Imagine you are stationary; there is no hazard ahead of you and there was no vehicle behind you when you stopped...you keep one eye on the mirror and see a vehicle approaching from behind. Tough shit if you parked right up to the centre of the fender of the car in front , otherwise you can manoeuver the bike out of harms way.

I don't know whether I'm a good rider, but I have used this very technique repeated times on the motor bike. On 2 occasions the car behind struck the car in front of where I was placed, on other occasions the gap was significantly less than the length of my bike. So in effect a rebuttal to your quoted scenario.

There are some things you can control, and some things you can influence.....but without information you don't get to make a well informed decision. Without learning what information is available to you, developing a method for focussing on the right information at the right time and then practicing that method till it becomes habitual you are more at the mercy of the driver competence of the other traffic on the roads.

Deciding how much you learn, and how much you practice is totally personal depending on your approach to personal safety, and driving.

[Blackbird]

Sorry you dont like my addition of the S but often people will add a S to a name eg Dick Smiths Noel Leemings Harvey Normans if you get my drift. Do you get angry with people adding the letter S to those names as well????

No we don't get angry as English is clearly a second language to you. IAM = Institute of Advanced Motorists. You'll note it has an "s" on the end already. To add another one is just piss poor grammar as cat-loving riders and others have already pointed out.

"Roadcraft" is a formal system used by police in the UK, NZ and elsewhere. IAM, RoSPA and others use the same system. Many Observers and Examiners in IAM and RoSpa are either serving police or ex-police who volunteer their time to pass on their skills to riders who want to pass the Roadcraft advanced test and perhaps move beyond that. To denigrate such an accepted system is both ignorant and arrogant. Still, you've demonstrated those qualities beyond doubt in the last gazillion pages, haven't you?

[bogan]

Other than hazard awareness what else does IAMs teach as thats the only thing that supporters have stated so far? You will note that another recent poster promotes IAMs to those who have forgotten what they learnt during the licence test. Well some of us who ride weekly do not forget. I have yet to read a response to my question as to why those not IAMs qualified are not dying like flies on the road which by the 10% only pass rate they should be should they not?????

It's not a binary thing that you either have or don't, some people are better than others at being aware of hazards, there's likely a correlation between extra training an being more aware. I couldn't give a fuck what sort of piss weak quote you get from somebody else here that you find to support your half assed arguments. If you honestly think passing the license test is an end goal for rider ability, you're a lost cause.
Have you got comparitive figures showing non IAM trained riders don't die more than IAM trained riders then?

[quickbuck]

But according to you guys anyone who is not a IAMs believer is an idiot anyway. You guys have wound me up with your high and mighty attitude towards it.
a

I NEVER ONCE said that..... Gross Generalisation, which you seem to be really good at.....

There is a saying: It is better to sit quiet and look like an idiot rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt.... You seem to be good at opening your mouth.

I personally have not had much at all to do with the LAM system, but I understand exactly what they are getting at.....
The Advanced Rider Training I am involved with seems to use some of the same things funny ol thing......

[tippersv]

But is he a safe reader and did he miss any lines? Who observed it?

and did he learn to read off the back of an IAMs packet?

[tippersv]

Last night I was happy to let this debate die as a poster suggested I do.

I don't think so..................

[dangerous]

IAMS does not gurantee to make you better or safer than non IAMS riders.

Did you seriously just compare the aptitude required to pass the IAM test to your driver's license test?

WELL fark you lot, shove ya IAMs, drivers licence etc... Im beter than the lot of ya's I am a a Motorcycling NZ acredited coach level ONE Ill have you know, so non of ya's no shit Im the man fastest and safest round any bend
And I ptrefer dog food over cat food anyday.

[bogan]

If thats your logic then you should have an even bigger worry that a car drivers license is an end goal too for many and far more of them can kill us than we kill ourselves. If you hold a car license as well
have you done an IAMs equivalent for that if not you are a lost cause car driver are you not??

Last night I was happy to let this debate die as a poster suggested I do, but you guys just love debate for the sake of debate I guess.

I am still yet to hear why non IAMs riders are not dying like flys. As you guys can not think up an answer I will give you one. We all all not as thick as you think on the road.

The lost cause part is the attitude, not the action. If you think passing the test of any sort means you no longer need to focus on self improvement, then you are a lost cause. A bloody good reason to continue to focus on self improvement is the number of muppets out there driving with the certainty that pulling a license out of the cereal box and sticking under the speed limit will ensure the safety wizards will protect you from harm.

You still don't seem to get the difference between 'good enough' and 'better'. I think it more appropriate to benchmark non-IAM riders against IAM rider than it is to compare them to flies.

[Katman]

To denigrate such an accepted system is both ignorant and arrogant.

With respect Geoff, refusing to consider whether improvements could be made to a system isn't particularly open-minded either.

[dangerous]

refusing to consider whether improvements could be made to a system

shit man... course improvments can be made, the day you me or anyother rider out ther claims to know it all and has the 'system' sused... is a dead bugger, fark Iv said it before if not once a dozen times... I learn something every time I ride and I will do so till I am unable to ride, covered near 400k in 30 odd years so far.

[bluninja]

If thats your logic then you should have an even bigger worry that a car drivers license is an end goal too for many and far more of them can kill us than we kill ourselves. If you hold a car license as well
have you done an IAMs equivalent for that if not you are a lost cause car driver are you not??

Last night I was happy to let this debate die as a poster suggested I do, but you guys just love debate for the sake of debate I guess.

I am still yet to hear why non IAMs riders are not dying like flys. As you guys can not think up an answer I will give you one. We all all not as thick as you think on the road.

Your first point that I've emboldened is sadly a pervasive attitude in NZ (IMHO). One can lobby the government, and work long term to change road users attitudes and skills. However on a day to day basis the only thing a rider can fully control is themselves. Improving riding skills, situational awareness, hazard identification and wearing protective gear is a personal choice; but the only choice you have within your full control.

IAM is not the only way to improve you riding/driving. Why the fixation?

The whole roadcraft system was brought about because "lots" of police officers were getting injured in crashes and someone was brought in to analyse and produce a system which would improve their safety on the road. The results were a measurable reduction in police rider/driver accidents after it's introduction.

Other options not involving IAM, RoSPA, MSF or RoadCraft based organisations(perhaps you have used some of these)

Practicing off road or on track to improve bike handling skills in a safe environment.
Training from a professional instructor.
Mentoring from a (perceived) more experienced rider.
Riding with other motorcyclists and observing their road riding; having an open chat to understand why they do some things differently to you.
Reading books, or watching instructional videos.

[Virago]

If thats your logic then you should have an even bigger worry that a car drivers license is an end goal too for many and far more of them can kill us than we kill ourselves...

I challenge you to provide statistics to back that statement.

[Madness]

Last night I was happy to let this debate die as a poster suggested I do, but you guys just love debate for the sake of debate I guess.

There has at no stage been any debate in this thread, just varying levels of fail.

We all all not as thick as you think on the road.

I sure hope you're not as thick on the road as you are on the internets.