Track day crashes!

[FROSTY:Me]

nope--rider 1 wasn't always going to THAT line to the right.Have another look at the vid from 15-18 seconds and 54 seconds on-it was a definite shift right.
Enough to close the door.

[vinducati]

Maybe he did, but it still remains the duty of the passing rider to pass safely.
People need to be more careful. There are so many laps at at trackday, why kill someone when all you have to do is wait and pass somewhere where it is a lot safer.

[tippersv]

nope--rider 1 wasn't always going to THAT line to the right.Have another look at the vid from 15-18 seconds and 54 seconds on-it was a definite shift right.
Enough to close the door.

its a track day, not racing .......

[NAR RG500]

nope--rider 1 wasn't always going to THAT line to the right.Have another look at the vid from 15-18 seconds and 54 seconds on-it was a definite shift right.
Enough to close the door.

There was a late steering input from the lead rider for sure as you say, and I agree with others that the onus is on the overtaking rider to do it safely.

When you are passing on the inside up there you are looking to the right, towards turn one, by the time the passing rider was ten meters behind him the lead bike was probably out of his line of sight, and for sure there was a gap to start with but a tenth of a second later there was not and the passing rider probably froze on the bars. Happens very fast at those speeds.

I think the video makes it look more reckless than it was but I understand why others may disagree.

Cheers

[Grubber]

Maybe he did, but it still remains the duty of the passing rider to pass safely.
People need to be more careful. There are so many laps at at trackday, why kill someone when all you have to do is wait and pass somewhere where it is a lot safer.

I agree, if i head up that hill i often button off to 180ish if i see someone i am catching. I'm not in a hurry so why mess with people.
Next lap he will often be behind me so it's clear track ahead, all good again.
We all get to ride on for the whole day and i'm sure we get to socialise with other riders more when we don't appear to be pissing them off.
Race day is quite different, it's basically get out of my way as safe as possible. Often it will be me who is gettin the learn, so works both ways.

[Mort]

There's no doubt that the track design contributed to the accident here.

Looking at the video:

• At 00:13 the lead bike is perhaps 5-6 metres from the right side of the track. It appears like there is room to pass.
• At 00:14 the blue bike commits to the pass but the lead bike has moved perhaps a metre to the right. 4 meters remain on the right.
• At 00:15 the yellow line appears (yes we know its there). Suddenly 3 meters is removed from the space available and ahead is concrete wall. The lead rider also moves over a further meter meaning no available space.
• At 00:16. Blue rider collides (presumably thinking he must not cross the line and cannot slow enough. He is committed. I would say he had speed and space for a close but safe pass but he panicked.

At the point the blue bike committed, he thought he had space to pass, then (within 1.5 secs) he didnt. It was robbed from both sides by the lead rider and yellow line...

It's still rider error but the track design is an issue.

[FROSTY:Me]

Maybe he did, but it still remains the duty of the passing rider to pass safely.
People need to be more careful. There are so many laps at at trackday, why kill someone when all you have to do is wait and pass somewhere where it is a lot safer.

Hang on a mo--To be clear I 100% agree with that sentiment BUT if the guy on the R1 saw that big ol 2.0m gap and the fairly big difference in speed and felt it was a safe gap then the guy in front who changed line has to accept a fair bit of responsibility for the crash.


Hey look I feel for both of those guys.

Im seeing the crash from the prospective of an ex track day organiser and in fairness also an ex racer (gonna be again please)
I saw a HUGE gap AND even with door firmly shut I saw the space and time to make an accident into just a bit of a change underpants incident.

[FROSTY:Me]

One thing that has really given me a grey hair or two hasn't been those passing me at speed. It has always been riders who suddenly change lines. Probably the very worst was going through the pukie esses and the rider looked back over his p right shoulder so the bike swerved left about 3.0m .--I learned that day that a road race bike can indeed do motocross and gets good air.

[FROSTY:Me]

There's no doubt that the track design contributed to the accident here.

Looking at the video:

• At 00:13 the lead bike is perhaps 5-6 metres from the right side of the track. It appears like there is room to pass.
• At 00:14 the blue bike commits to the pass but the lead bike has moved perhaps a metre to the right. 4 meters remain on the right.
• At 00:15 the yellow line appears (yes we know its there). Suddenly 3 meters is removed from the space available and ahead is concrete wall. The lead rider also moves over a further meter meaning no available space.
• At 00:16. Blue rider collides (presumably thinking he must not cross the line and cannot slow enough. He is committed. I would say he had speed and space for a close but safe pass but he panicked.

At the point the blue bike committed, he though he had space, then (within 1.5 secs) he didnt. It was robbed from both sides by the lead rider and yellow line...

It's still rider error but the track design is an issue.

Holey cow Mort--the day had to come diddn't it--where I agree with you 100%

[vinducati]

To me rider 1 move to the right was hardly sudden and I have been there heaps of times and I could tell you he was always going to close to the line.
It's a line I use, mid track gently in to close to the yellow then gently back to the left to take a wide entry into turn 1.
I do do this very steadily.
Rider 2 is firmly to blame, he was just greedy to pass and his impatience could have cost 3 people their lives.

[Mental Trousers]

Hang on a mo--To be clear I 100% agree with that sentiment BUT if the guy on the R1 saw that big ol 2.0m gap and the fairly big difference in speed and felt it was a safe gap then the guy in front who changed line has to accept a fair bit of responsibility for the crash.

Nope. The lead rider was already on a line that would make that pass too tight. The input on the bars was to follow the corner instead of going straight ahead into the wall.

Doesn't matter if the lead rider changes line (these types are the worst to get past on the track), it's still up to the following rider to pass safely.

There are certain passes I won't do on a track day but I will on a race day, passing up the inside at that point is one.

[jasonu]

Hang on a mo--To be clear I 100% agree with that sentiment BUT if the guy on the R1 saw that big ol 2.0m gap and the fairly big difference in speed and felt it was a safe gap then the guy in front who changed line has to accept a fair bit of responsibility for the crash.

Except all participants agree not to pass on the inside and also to leave a 2m gap when passing (on the outside). The R1 did neither.

[vinducati]

What really gets me, is Rider 1 is going at quite a low speed and has every right to, all Rider 2 had to do, on an R1, is wait and he could pass anywhere with that sort of HP.
I am just glad that the idiot has been banned.

[SPP]

Sweet, they certainly will....
In fact the first lesson alone will help heaps...

Just what I was gonna say

I've done 3 of their levels and you won't regret it. Gives you a far better understanding of how your bike reacts under different circumstances. Recommend it thoroughly.

Reckon, looking forward to it! Lev will be run at a normal Playday but get more coach time, mint... will leave my mirrors on I think.

Looking at the video:

• At 00:13 the lead bike is perhaps 5-6 metres from the right side of the track. It appears like there is room to pass.
• At 00:14 the blue bike commits to the pass but the lead bike has moved perhaps a metre to the right. 4 meters remain on the right.
• At 00:15 the yellow line appears (yes we know its there). Suddenly 3 meters is removed from the space available and ahead is concrete wall. The lead rider also moves over a further meter meaning no available space.
• At 00:16. Blue rider collides (presumably thinking he must not cross the line and cannot slow enough. He is committed. I would say he had speed and space for a close but safe pass but he panicked.

How many laps does it take to know pit entrance is right there and be careful? I can see how if you aren't really sure where you are and you commit that by the time you do realize you don't get much time to correct.

Nope. The lead rider was already on a line that would make that pass too tight. The input on the bars was to follow the corner instead of going straight ahead into the wall.

Doesn't matter if the lead rider changes line (these types are the worst to get past on the track), it's still up to the following rider to pass safely.

There are certain passes I won't do on a track day but I will on a race day, passing up the inside at that point is one.

That's how I saw it.

[quickbuck]

Reckon, looking forward to it! Lev will be run at a normal Playday but get more coach time, mint... will leave my mirrors on I think.











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You will have to tae those up or take them off.... Nothing more dangerous than a rider riding in their mirrors when they are supposed to be looking ahead.



Don't want to give too much away, but for your first lesson you won't need a gearbox or brakes either....



It is NOTHING like a Play Day with coaching.

It is full on One on Two or Three coaching using the track to cement the theory.





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