The clutch. Who uses it?

[bogan]

A zxr you say, they tend to break if you just look at em funny, let along cock up clutchless shifting

[mstriumph]

Rubbish. Clutch on the down shift, don't worry about the up.

Clutch cables snap, but I doubt most bikers could manage the run and jump starts required to get out of a busy city these days.

para b) mebbe so ... i've done it and i'm no superhero ...

however, para a) your advice (simple as it may be to little old experienced you) is probably gonna get a n00b into strife and expense ... unkind. or mebbe it's a schoolboy thing - where all the older guys urge the kid on to do something questionable so they can stand around and laugh when it all ends in tears?

[98tls]

Call me old and set in my ways but after 51 years/ 38 motorcycles ive never seen any reason to not use the clutch but hey older and open-minded,Why not take the rims off the thing that way you wont have to use the tyres.

[Akzle]

Call me old and set in my ways but after 51 years/ 38 motorcycles ...

maybe if you learned to clutchless shift nicely you wouldnt have broken the last 37...

[AllanB]

This site cracks me up.

Hmm - you have turn signals - meh don't use them mate - saves precious seconds.

Foot-pegs - take em off - saves weight

Speedo - remove it - saves weight and reduces stress worrying about going too fast

Replace the fuel tank with a smaller one - how ofter do you actually use all that fuel on a ride?

Run you engine oil at the minimum level - more weight saving.

[bogan]

This site cracks me up.

Hmm - you have turn signals - meh don't use them mate - saves precious seconds.

Foot-pegs - take em off - saves weight

Speedo - remove it - saves weight and reduces stress worrying about going too fast

Replace the fuel tank with a smaller one - how ofter do you actually use all that fuel on a ride?

Run you engine oil at the minimum level - more weight saving.

Ride everywhere on the back wheel, it'll save on front tyre wear.

[Tazz]

This site cracks me up.

Hmm - you have turn signals - meh don't use them mate - saves precious seconds.

Foot-pegs - take em off - saves weight

Speedo - remove it - saves weight and reduces stress worrying about going too fast

Replace the fuel tank with a smaller one - how ofter do you actually use all that fuel on a ride?

Run you engine oil at the minimum level - more weight saving.

I've done all this as advised and shaved 20 seconds off my time to get to the dairy. So badass! Thanks man!
Milky Bars are on me next trip.

[pritch]

You usually can if youre paying attention.

Are you related to Katman?

[caspernz]

Bikes have dog synchros right, so it shouldn't really matter whether i use it or not?

You sound like a mechanics' dream

I prefer to spend my money on consumables such as tyres instead of gearbox rebuilds

[Akzle]

Are you related to Katman?

only by a superiority complex and a low horseshit threshold.

[Drew]

para b) mebbe so ... i've done it and i'm no superhero ...

however, para a) your advice (simple as it may be to little old experienced you) is probably gonna get a n00b into strife and expense ... unkind. or mebbe it's a schoolboy thing - where all the older guys urge the kid on to do something questionable so they can stand around and laugh when it all ends in tears?

You misrepresent me. I would never give bad advice in that way. I've done it in person, for a laugh, of course. Most people have or been involved in doing it. But telling someone to do something dangerous, online? No.

Ride everywhere on the back wheel, it'll save on front tyre wear.

You got a better way to do it fucker?!

You sound like a mechanics' dream

I prefer to spend my money on consumables such as tyres instead of gearbox rebuilds

Do you know what a 'dog box' is? In theory, there is no in between. There is 'in', or 'out' of the gear.

Upshifts without the clutch, (with the possible exception of 1st to 2nd), are gonna cause no more wear than if you use the clutch. The shaft speeds remain constant with or without the clutch! That momentum is where the wear comes from, not from the crank or sprocket. As long as you unload the mating surfaces of the gear you're going out of, (and the lever generally won't fucken budge if you don't), you are not adversely effecting anything at all.

This thread at it's most basic level, is a question for those with engineering understanding. I bet 90% (if not more of the people posting), have no understanding of how the gear box on their bike works. Like, I'll bet a good portion of me next pay!

Let's just check. Picture two spinning shafts, each with six cogs/gears slipped over them. Now, gears 1, 3, and 5 are fixed via spline so that they cannot spin on shaft #1. Gears 2, 4, and 6 are fixed via spline to shaft #2.

The one's that are not fixed to each spline, are moved side to side by 'selector forks'. They have 'dogs' on the side of them, those 'dogs' engage the gear on one or the other side of them. This 'engages' one of those two gears to it's corresponding mate, which is fixed to the other shaft. This creates two fixed cogs, and drive.

Who got that?

Yeah, fuck all of you!

The 'dogs' in a gear box, are three or four very serious blocks. Hardened chunks of cast iron. Unless you have a Kawasaki (my experience suggests they flag the mating process), they are machined before hardening to mate to a corresponding set of chunky arse block of machined, hardened, cast iron. So long as they aren't slipping past each other, going BANG BANG BANG, you are not damaging them by not using the clutch.

So anyone with understanding (who could prolly write it more clearly if they do), is welcome to argue with me regarding the merit of a clutch.

I only say you should use the clutch on down shift, because it is more efficient and quicker. The next gear wont engage till things are matched for speed anyway.

PS

The "bang bang bang" I described, can sometimes be heard when dropping into first gear from neutral.

[pritch]

Picture two spinning shafts, each with six cogs/gears slipped over them. Now, gears 1, 3, and 5 are fixed via spline so that they cannot spin on shaft #1. Gears 2, 4, and 6 are fixed via spline to shaft #2.

The one's that are not fixed to each spline, are moved side to side by 'selector forks'. They have 'dogs' on the side of them, those 'dogs' engage the gear on one or the other side of them. This 'engages' one of those two gears to it's corresponding mate, which is fixed to the other shaft. This creates two fixed cogs, and drive.

Who got that?

Kevin Cameron described how a gearbox works with just the one illustration, which I found surprising. You managed pretty well with no pictures at all.

[Drew]

Kevin Cameron described how a gearbox works with just the one illustration, which I found surprising. You managed pretty well with no pictures at all.

I fucked it up though. It's the cog that IS fixed that hooks the gears either side.

Must remember to proof read.

[Trade_nancy]

I fucked it up though. It's the cog that IS fixed that hooks the gears either side.

Must remember to proof read.

A good enough explanation none-the-less...

[caspernz]

Cheers Drew, not arguing too much here but I do understand the mechanics of a non synchro box. Gearbox on most bikes similar to trucks, and yes in principle you're correct. The downside being that repeated poorly performed clutchless upshifting will round the dogs to the point where the box will jump out of gear. Not to mention the potential for a spectacular self destruct sequence that follows from operator ineptitude. Ask an old time dairy tanker driver about the use of the old mystery gear in a 13 spd RR and then ask the mechanic that got to fix the inevitable box-o-bits that the gearbox resembled after it went wrong...

Clutchless upshifts are something we all learn, but maybe for newbies there's better stuff to focus on than clutchless shifting?