Collapse of civilisation (one for Akzle)

**bogan** · 22nd March 2014, 21:56

Originally Posted by mashman

Does it exist at all?

Often the sheep might bleat at shadows, but I think there is at least a rustling of leaves present this time. It would be good to go over such a report to remove the blind faith both sides seem to be exhibiting...

**mashman** · 23rd March 2014, 09:33

Originally Posted by bogan

Often the sheep might bleat at shadows, but I think there is at least a rustling of leaves present this time. It would be good to go over such a report to remove the blind faith both sides seem to be exhibiting...

The existence of the report does not matter. Things are changing, we know they are, the report will probably highlight the same thing. The degrees to which an individual will process that information in order to form a conclusion vary. Some will claim the sky is falling at the moment and they wouldn't be wrong. Some will claim that it's a warning and that people should prepare for the worst and they would not be wrong. Some will claim that what is happening is by design and they would not be wrong. There will likely be 1 or 2 (or more) of shades of outcome for an individual and each outcome would hold merit. The blind faith that their analysis is correct or at least confirms the plausibility of an outcome is founded on guess work, gut feeling, has been said before etc... and the contents of this report cannot backup or deny that guesswork due to the report being guesswork itself. I know you won't like that, but it doesn't make it any less true. Yes they have modeled their findings and drawn their conclusions on what they call evidence, but it doesn't make it any more than guesswork. You can call it educated guesswork should you wish and choose to hold that conclusion above all others as the most plausible, but all you really have is trust in their guess over that of anyone else. So you aren't going to remove the blind faith of either end of the scale because everyone could be "right" and to derive what you believe the report is pointing towards and deliver it as fact is exactly the same thing that others will do without reading the report. The report is irrelevant, things are changing. The only real question, unfortunately, is when. I say unfortunately as I think the only real question is, what should we do to mitigate what's coming. Civilisation has collapsed before apparently. It will again. There are signs around the world that things are changing, protests are becoming more violent and are being met with more violence and they look to be lasting longer and in some cases keep occurring in the same places after a break. At some point the financial system is going to go flat on its face and that is seriously going to fuck the place up. The timeline may be 100 years. It may be 5 years. But it will happen according to those of you who have studied history. The report is irrelevant in so many ways, but by all means, bury your head in the book to look for answers... how religious of you.

Tsk tsk, such bias.

**bogan** · 23rd March 2014, 09:39

Originally Posted by mashman

The existence of the report does not matter. Things are changing, we know they are, the report will probably highlight the same thing. The degrees to which an individual will process that information in order to form a conclusion vary. Some will claim the sky is falling at the moment and they wouldn't be wrong. Some will claim that it's a warning and that people should prepare for the worst and they would not be wrong. Some will claim that what is happening is by design and they would not be wrong. There will likely be 1 or 2 (or more) of shades of outcome for an individual and each outcome would hold merit. The blind faith that their analysis is correct or at least confirms the plausibility of an outcome is founded on guess work, gut feeling, has been said before etc... and the contents of this report cannot backup or deny that guesswork due to the report being guesswork itself. I know you won't like that, but it doesn't make it any less true. Yes they have modeled their findings and drawn their conclusions on what they call evidence, but it doesn't make it any more than guesswork. You can call it educated guesswork should you wish and choose to hold that conclusion above all others as the most plausible, but all you really have is trust in their guess over that of anyone else. So you aren't going to remove the blind faith of either end of the scale because everyone could be "right" and to derive what you believe the report is pointing towards and deliver it as fact is exactly the same thing that others will do without reading the report. The report is irrelevant, things are changing. The only real question, unfortunately, is when. I say unfortunately as I think the only real question is, what should we do to mitigate what's coming. Civilisation has collapsed before apparently. It will again. There are signs around the world that things are changing, protests are becoming more violent and are being met with more violence and they look to be lasting longer and in some cases keep occurring in the same places after a break. At some point the financial system is going to go flat on its face and that is seriously going to fuck the place up. The timeline may be 100 years. It may be 5 years. But it will happen according to those of you who have studied history. The report is irrelevant in so many ways, but by all means, bury your head in the book to look for answers... how religious of you.

Tsk tsk, such bias.

Blind faith is just seeing sensationalist title and going, hey that is completely right. Reading and discussing such a report is not blind faith; it's kinda the point of writing such things...

**unstuck** · 23rd March 2014, 10:30

http://www.collective-evolution.com/...er-the-planet/

.....................

**mashman** · 23rd March 2014, 10:38

Originally Posted by bogan

Blind faith is just seeing sensationalist title and going, hey that is completely right. Reading and discussing such a report is not blind faith; it's kinda the point of writing such things...

Ya reckon there's no other reasoning that has gone on prior to the sensationalist headline? Coz I don't. T'would be silly to jump to such a conclusion would it not? It's like saying that reading and discussing report and therefore there is absolutely no need for any other analysis, it is definitive and therefore cannot be denied. Blind faith indeed.

**carbonhed** · 23rd March 2014, 10:39

Originally Posted by bogan

Sounds about right, is the actual report even published yet?

Don't think so. Standard practice with these bastards. Big it up, get all the column inches then a couple of months later when the report is dismantled in detail... not a murmur in the MSM. Wankers the lot of them.

**bogan** · 23rd March 2014, 10:42

Originally Posted by mashman

Ya reckon there's no other reasoning that has gone on prior to the sensationalist headline? Coz I don't. Blind faith indeed.

No arguments there

Originally Posted by carbonhed

Don't think so. Standard practice with these bastards. Big it up, get all the column inches then a couple of months later when the report is dismantled in detail... not a murmur in the MSM. Wankers the lot of them.

Such is most of the media these days it would seem.

**mashman** · 23rd March 2014, 10:48

Originally Posted by unstuck

http://www.collective-evolution.com/...er-the-planet/

.....................

I'm sorry, the sources the article quotes are not those of any scientific repute and therefore the entire document is sensationalist greeny bullshit that is merely trying to hamper our superb progress. If people need to die so that we can have our jeans, t'shirts n stuff at reasonable prices, then that is just the way it has to be.

**mashman** · 23rd March 2014, 10:51

Originally Posted by carbonhed

Don't think so. Standard practice with these bastards. Big it up, get all the column inches then a couple of months later when the report is dismantled in detail... not a murmur in the MSM. Wankers the lot of them.

Originally Posted by bogan

Such is most of the media these days it would seem.

At some point we're going to have to stop using the media as an excuse for us not doing anything. I eagerly await that day.

**bogan** · 23rd March 2014, 10:53

Originally Posted by mashman

At some point we're going to have to stop using the media as an excuse for us not doing anything. I eagerly await that day.

Exactly, which is why I want to take the media out of the equation by reading the article myself, you starting to understand yet?

**mashman** · 23rd March 2014, 10:55

Originally Posted by bogan

Exactly, which is why I want to take the media out of the equation by reading the article myself, you starting to understand yet?

I understood that in the first instance. However I see the article in the OP as a valid opinion of that report.

**bogan** · 23rd March 2014, 10:58

Originally Posted by mashman

However I see the article in the OP as a valid opinion of that report.

Bullshit, you can't know if it is a valid interpretation of that report without reading it (although you'd probably struggle with that part too). All you see is an opinion which agrees with your own; like I said, blind faith.

**mashman** · 23rd March 2014, 11:01

Originally Posted by bogan

Bullshit, you can't know if it is a valid interpretation of that report without reading it (although you'd probably struggle with that part too). All you see is an opinion which agrees with your own; like I said, blind faith.

Some dickhead put pants on my head and it makes it hard to read sometimes. The headline itself is enough. If it were blind faith I would have referred to the article at some point, I haven't, primarily due to not having to as I know that the headline is true given direct observation of the goings on in the world.