The cheater MX85 argument. I might be changing my mind.

[kel]

Not as dumb as saying the RSA125 and the RSW125 don't have power valves when they so plainly do.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/at...6&d=1365770361

Classic
Im sure Frits said they didnt bother with power valves on the 125's

[Bert]

there are other options TZR125 DTR125 RG125 RG150's

all good options. 50mm stroke.

also suzuki TS125r, TDM150, TZR150, DTR150...

while they turn up now and again they aren't common...

[Rick 52]

Was that Ricks bike? I had a ride on his at kaitoke and was suitable impressed by the the power. TF motor, no idea what he's done to it

Yea it was, and it's better now with wider power and another HP, ESE helped me with some tips on tidying the porting, cutting the back of the piston down by another 2mm and useing a kart carb, I also made a new pipe and increased the stinger diameter, the worse thing with the TF is the gearbox so I changed it for a TS 125 .

[Yow Ling]

all good options. 50mm stroke.

also suzuki TS125r, TDM150, TZR150, DTR150...

while they turn up now and again they aren't common...

RG150 is common, in fact as they are declining in streetstock they are a good option for putting a sleeved rgv 250 cylinder onto.
this is what nigel duffs and dieselpigs bikes are based on

[husaberg]

Classic
Im sure Frits said they didnt bother with power valves on the 125's

I can remember him saying that they respond far faster than the rev counter Strike two.
He did say a decent rider worth his salt should be sacked if he was ever below 10000 rpm or something

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/at...6&d=1365770361
http://www.siegertyamaha.com/MotorradVerk/C214a.jpg
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/at...5&d=1365769602
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/at...4&d=1334571540
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/at...5&d=1358678743
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/at...8&d=1340504707
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/at...1&d=1340505276
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/at...7&d=1360050367

[Skunk]

all good options. 50mm stroke.

also suzuki TS125r, TDM150, TZR150, DTR150...

while they turn up now and again they aren't common...

Or easy.

I thought this was an idea to OPEN the class up to MORE riders. Instead you either ride a diesel or have be rich or an engineer. I don't like the options and the attitude that everything is ok. It's not.

Over and out. Can't be fucked with old school thinking. Some of you should be on the MNZ Board. No changes unless it suits you personally.


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

[TZ350]

Unless a standard MX85 only makes 12-14 rwhp which is where TF-TS-GP-RX125's etc and the FXR150's (14rwhp) start from then a standard MX85 more than levels the playing field, they are a significant head start on whatever is legal and currently available.

... personally I think just open the rules to all motors and just limit capacity.

If MX85's are to come in so as to make more 2T's available for Bucket racing, then to be fair to everyone, open rules with only there capacity limited would be my pick for a level playing field. That way it gives the accomplished fiddlers something new to work with too.

[chrisc]

Agreed^ Shit even factory cylinders would be a great idea as they'd need to be re-plated if ported because of the nikasil. This would prevent all but the most keen from tackling them.
I even think the maximum chamber diameter was a great idea although that might not really be applicable as the engines we all seem to build are aimed towards a large spread of power. Super easy to enforce. Buckets is no place for complex rules which require a load of effort to police.

[husaberg]

Over and out. Can't be fucked with old school thinking. Some of you should be on the MNZ Board. No changes unless it suits you personally.

Or conversely why not change a 35 year old rule cause that would suit you nicely...........

[steamroller]

A well built 100cc water cooled non comp motor should walk all over a 150 four, just as it should walk all over a 85MX.
Power valves on small capacity bikes are over rated. On the big tracks they will always be fully open, on the small tracks they will have trouble keeping up with the rpm changes due to short gearing and clutch slipping out of corners. Aprilia didnt bother with power valves on their 125 GP bikes, they were used on 250 racers mainly to smooth the power delivery. They are not super chargers.
How about we make a concession that power valves must be hard wired open? I could live with that.
MX85 2 stroke vs 150 four stroke is a good match up and anyone that can run the numbers knows this. Both bikes will have their strengths and weaknesses, 4 strokes should dominate the kart tracks, the MX85's just might dominant the big tracks.

but you said they dont do any thing so why hard wire them open hard wire them shut

[Skunk]

I have no plans to built one. Can you not read?


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

[Sketchy_Racer]

If MX85's are to come in so as to make more 2T's available for Bucket racing, then open rules with only there capacity limited would be my pick for a level playing field. That way it gives the fiddlers something new to work with too.

Yeah, it would be so awesome, think of all the hot motors running around and performance potential limited to 30HP

[husaberg]

i have no plans to built one. Can you not read?


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

toofo...............
I can read but it was only after all these posts that you said oh i don't want to build one LOL

To me this is about having access to a reasonable power 2 stoke without having to be a fucking expert or have dyno and large wallet. The lack of something like this is what is KEEPING ME OUT OF THE SPORT!

Go on, tell me if I can't afford to race under the current rules I shouldn't bother.
If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

I don't really care for tailoring for lil johnnies. It's there parents that do the work so it has to suit them.
And can be just like me...
I don't think more and more power is a good thing. I'd like to see a hp limit if anything.
And I don't want a dirty diesel.
If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

Because I love 2 strokes. Why shouldn't I be able to race one?
4 strokes have gone from 140cc to 160 and multi valve without any change to the old 2 stroke rules
If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

Bolt it in and ride. My TF is 9hp. MX85 should be 17hp.
To be clear - I can build a bike but I can't do porting, swish and jetting. MX85 comes already set.
If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

Too much. I already know what's needed for 20hp.
An MX85 will turn up at a cheaper price.
Maybe the pipe needs to be std as a restriction...
If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

[Rick 52]

What's been done to your TF Rick?? As I said earlier I was very impressed with your motor but always assumed it's had a lot of development work.

The engine was built when I got it, it was in a RG50 frame, people have said it was a Pete Sales bike but I'm not sure, Rob from ESE Would give you the port timing numbers as I've never written them down, it runs TKRJ normal pistons with a little skim of the dome for a better shape and 8mm of the back of the skirt, standard crank, standard steel reeds (changed every year) o ring head, Honda CR85 ignition 3rd generation self made pipe, ESE have said much more can be had from it but I would hate to loose the reliability, I get my kicks from racing it rather than searching for more power.
The 85mx debate has been very interesting but a little confusing, the lap times have tumbled in the last two years with guys spending more and more on getting power, I hope some don't get put of racing because they don't have the budget or experience to build a competitive machine .

[seymour14]

Or conversely why not change a 35 year old rule cause that would suit you nicely...........

Fully agree. There's where the real agenda lies!

I treat Nat's bike as the one to beat, so the aspiration is to try to achieve this within the rules.

And we are happy to try out a two-stroke within the current rules.

If we were moaners, we could harp on about the lack of 100cc four strokes available for us to use in F5, but no worries, we'll have a crack at that too in time, within the rules.