Scooters are depressing

[Big Dog]

u r right, dogs don't seem to like certain bike sounds, mines a v twin with two brothers pipes, so kind of loud and I'm sure this is what set the dog off.

I never had time to think ( was going about 50kph ), nor make eye contact with this huge mutt, it just sprung out of nowhere and it was instinctive that I did what I did ( i.e. booted it )

I love dogs and have owned a few different breeds ( English Bull Terrier ,Rhodesian Ridgeback and Doberman ) and always kept them secured in the property, other people that own large dogs should do the same as they can be a huge hazard to bikers!

I agree, and I go to great lengths to keep mine under control.
My problem seems to be I like smart dogs... Never underestimate the ability of a dog to escape if they want to.
My first dog to taken to the pound by a neighbor because it jumped the fence while his wife was teasing her. Bloody lucky I was not there according to my flatmate she was then left hanging from her chain not able to reach the ground while the callous fuckers called the pound, duct taped her mouth shut and then let her off the chain. Apparently all the while she was bucking kicking and foaming at the mouth as she choked.
My fault, I was leaving her at home while I went to work when at the previous job she came to work with me so she would start howling at lunch time because she would normally have got one of my sandwiches and a walk about then.
Anyway back to the point, when I went to pick her up from the pound she was getting beaten up by another dog. I went looking for the pound guy, came back and she was just coming back from a trip to the neighboring tip.
3 meter prison style fence with the sloping barbed wire.
50 odd dogs detained in the pen... not this bitch.

I don't even try and stop them escaping any more. I work on their psychology so they want to stay home want to protect the pack. The fence is more to make the neighbors and the council happy.
I have tried a few escape proof methods... both of my dogs I have had seem to think that is funny. They sort of smile pant hang their tongue out and pant and a soon as you turn their back they are history. Then you find them hiding under the house, or sitting by the truck hoping to go for a ride.
It is infuriating because they are still on the property, just not where they are supposed to be.

[Berries]

Night two. she woke me up, I told her to be quiet until the ranch slider opened.

I never realised Lassie was from NZ. One smart dog.

[Big Dog]

I never realised Lassie was from NZ. One smart dog.

Pretty sure if she ever found anyone in a well she didn't tell me...

[bogan]

Think you might be being a bit harsh there. It's perfectly reasonable to have the dog run at high speed from behind a solid fence or hedge. That would be 3m to the gutter and 4-5m to the middle of the lane. The dog could easily be doing 35km/hr, so 10m/s. That places the dog 2-3m to your left when you first react. Given 50km/hr on the bike, you try stopping or swerving to avoid that. Given also that there isn't time to decide which way to go - it will have to be instinctive or to your escape plan. 0.3s of hard swerve at that speed will not move the track of the bike more than about 1m to the side.

I reckon in that kind of situation you would very likely hit the dog.

The construct is artificial, but from the limited amount I've read of the crash (just this thread), it is a reasonable one. That would put it in the unavoidable position.

If there was more information available to the rider earlier, then there is definitely room for avoidance. Then it comes down to some of the issues discussed in this thread.

My point was that you do have time to react, albeit short and possibly futile. I'm simply trying (also perhaps futilely) to encourage the ideal that treating every accident as avoidable is the safest way to ride. Cassina seems to have had a whole stack of 'unavoidable' ones, making here either extremely unlucky, or just really shit at defensive riding. I mean how many people here would even say they have had one unavoidable one?

And your dumb enough to believe that the direction and speed of the dog and your bike will be exactly the same if there is a next time?

Of course not, I was just pointing out it had happened; and considering I check all directions for hazards (both speeding and stationary), I am confident it will be avoidable next time. You're clearly dumb enough not to learn from your accidents so you keep having them. Gee, I wonder which of us is better off?

[mossy1200]

Got chased by a wolf hound from the top of the cable car in welly. Took all the way down the road past the uni to gap him enough for him to give up. Big angry fast dog that didn't like the sound of a SP1.

[bogan]

The fact that if there is a next time you will be confident in being able to avoid hitting the dog still gives me the impression that you will be expecting all distances, directions and speeds to be the same. Your thinking reminds me of the very first time I skied down the steepest slope at mt hutt and did not crash. I came away confident I could do it again without crashing but it did not always work out that way if you can see the analogy.

Wrong, I expect said speeds/directions to be in the same range (ie, reality); like how I said I looked everywhere for hazards (not same direction, obviously). That analogy is analogous in that you have clearly missed the point, but it still works anyway; skiing down the slope without crashing proves it is possible to avoid crashing, crashing on subsequent runs means on those runs it was your lack of skill that contributed to the crash; how could it be otherwise?

[bogan]

No not lack of skill but just being overconfident after a successful first run and I just see you as being overconfident after avoiding your first dog.

Overconfidence is exaclty that though, getting yourself into a situation where you do not have the skill to avoid the crash. Confidence (be it over or under) would be meaningless in the face of an unavoidable accident. That you bring it up only shows the accidents are as I describe, avoidable with the right skillset. If you also learned to read I didn't say I would avoid it, just that it would be avoidable; the distinction's implications are important.

[madbikeboy]

I am simply saying this is not true after being in a few crashes where I have not even had time to brake.

You're either not paying any attention, or your processing is so slow that you're retarded. Maybe multiple crashes with zero braking response should be enough advance warning that you're just no good at this biking thing?

[Akzle]

You're either not paying any attention, or your processing is so slow that you're retarded. Maybe multiple crashes with zero braking response should be enough advance warning that you're just no good at this biking thing?

+rbjiafp.

[dinosaur]

When I was younger - no real bloke would be caught dead riding a scooter
but they're a bit like fat chic's; if no one is looking you'd hope on and go for a ride

[Scubbo]

When I was younger - no real bloke would be caught dead riding a scooter
but they're a bit like fat chic's; if no one is looking you'd hope on and go for a ride

and like fat chic's they're cheap (to rego...)

[Akzle]

Maybe like a few others on here you have just got lucky in having enough time in the past to slam on the brakes to avoid a crash.

you deserve to die in a manglement of automotive steel.

[madbikeboy]

Maybe like a few others on here you have just got lucky in having enough time in the past to slam on the brakes to avoid a crash. Keep in mind this may not always be the case in the future so then you will become the one not paying attention or being retarded and should at that point give up riding yourself.

Madam Retard,

You take a very passive role in determining your fate if you believe that luck alone will save you.

Planning, training, constant attention, and giving yourself space, time and distance. I'll take my survival strategies over yours.

MBB.

[FJRider]

... Planning, training, constant attention, and giving yourself space, time and distance. I'll take my survival strategies over yours.

MBB.

Misjudge any one of those six factors ... and regardless of (your) ability/skill/luck ... you could be toast.

And sometimes .... luck is all it is that keeps you alive. Don't knock it ...

Personally ... the warning voices in my head have saved the day a few times.

[FJRider]

When I was younger - no real bloke would be caught dead riding a scooter
but they're a bit like fat chic's; if no one is looking you'd hope on and go for a ride

The trick is not to be seen climbing off EITHER ...