Mark Lundy - miscarriage of justice?

[madbikeboy]

Yes, you are correct, the incompetence level you are seeing reported is just the tip of the iceberg. there is plenty more to come. lots of coppers with early onset Alzheimer's.
they must have a manual (yellow and black cover) how to investigate a murder for dummies that they probably haven't read because they keep making the same mistakes. the coppers got hammered for not wearing protective clothing and last night on TV, the murder shooting in Hamilton, yes wearing protective gear but not correctly, hair exposed no safety glasses and no booties. they are not very quick on the uptake are they. is it arrogance or what?

Study Bain, Barlow, Ellis, Tamahere, Watson, Lundy and of course Thomas and you see a recurring theme of incompetence.
And that's not even mentioning all the police who have been charged with various serious crimes over the last few years. how can the public have confidence in a Police force in turmoil. they are more interested in fining you for 4 kms over the speed limit.
They need to get their own house in order.

sorry about the rant, but I get furious, we are supposed to be able to trust a Policeman to tell the truth and do the right thing, hasn't been happening though has it.

I'm going to summon some written elegance, since I've been back on KB, I've been writing too many expletive laden posts to Cassina.

I have a different position from most on KB, being as I don't really care if Lundy is guilty or innocent. What I care about is the erosion of trust in the police's investigative ability, and the general perception of lack of trust in the correct outcome in any major case. Aside from the obvious cases where the killer is standing over the corpse with a knife, have we had any excellent investigations here? Perhaps as a result of seeing CSI on a weekly basis, we expect out police force to have excellent investigations, with outcomes that we can trust. We have DNA analysis that's spectacular, we have blood splatter analysis that can determine heights of killers, we have huge amounts of CCTV, GPS, etc.

And yet, when there's a major case, do we trust the result? Name one case where we do trust the outcome.

I believe that the police have had further erosions of trust with the Rotorua Sex club debacle, the Bain case, the Lundy case, and the horrific legal standing of the fat German's case. Personally, I don't give a rat's about any of them - but my own personal interactions with the cops in the last 5 years (after a cager assaulted me with his car, and when I had trouble with youths fighting on my property, or with the Ginger cop in Helensville's creative speed claims) have completely removed my faith. In part, my move overseas was because of these situations; I like living overseas, and yes, while there is corruption at a high level, the average street cop deals with situations with a more satisfactory outcome; and unlike with Dotcom, they follow the correct legal process. There seems to be a sense that when the cops turn up, they actually do something with the bad guys (yes, I realise that the judicial system is responsible for the outcomes, but please take my intended point).

So, point is, a fundamental foundation for society is trust in the police force, trust in the judicial system, and trust in the democracy that underlies the whole process. When the ministers of Police can shop around for opinions they like, and when no one trusts the outcome in the first place - then values erode as a result.

Regardless of all the friendly reality TV programmes that read like cheap PR stunts dreamed up by some retarded agency, I'm not sure that Joe Average has any more trust than I do.

[oldrider]

I'm going to summon some written elegance, since I've been back on KB, I've been writing too many expletive laden posts to Cassina.

I have a different position from most on KB, being as I don't really care if Lundy is guilty or innocent. What I care about is the erosion of trust in the police's investigative ability, and the general perception of lack of trust in the correct outcome in any major case. Aside from the obvious cases where the killer is standing over the corpse with a knife, have we had any excellent investigations here? Perhaps as a result of seeing CSI on a weekly basis, we expect out police force to have excellent investigations, with outcomes that we can trust. We have DNA analysis that's spectacular, we have blood splatter analysis that can determine heights of killers, we have huge amounts of CCTV, GPS, etc.

And yet, when there's a major case, do we trust the result? Name one case where we do trust the outcome.

I believe that the police have had further erosions of trust with the Rotorua Sex club debacle, the Bain case, the Lundy case, and the horrific legal standing of the fat German's case. Personally, I don't give a rat's about any of them - but my own personal interactions with the cops in the last 5 years (after a cager assaulted me with his car, and when I had trouble with youths fighting on my property, or with the Ginger cop in Helensville's creative speed claims) have completely removed my faith. In part, my move overseas was because of these situations; I like living overseas, and yes, while there is corruption at a high level, the average street cop deals with situations with a more satisfactory outcome; and unlike with Dotcom, they follow the correct legal process. There seems to be a sense that when the cops turn up, they actually do something with the bad guys (yes, I realise that the judicial system is responsible for the outcomes, but please take my intended point).

So, point is, a fundamental foundation for society is trust in the police force, trust in the judicial system, and trust in the democracy that underlies the whole process. When the ministers of Police can shop around for opinions they like, and when no one trusts the outcome in the first place - then values erode as a result.

Regardless of all the friendly reality TV programmes that read like cheap PR stunts dreamed up by some retarded agency, I'm not sure that Joe Average has any more trust than I do.

True but all these things that are deteriorating as you say - belong to us - the taxpaying citizens - why do we allow and tolerate these downward drifts in standards?

[madbikeboy]

True but all these things that are deteriorating as you say - belong to us - the taxpaying citizens - why do we allow and tolerate these downward drifts in standards?

Good question. Is it apathy? Is it a lack of trust in the politics that lie beneath? (Mis)quoting Joseph de Maistre, we do get the government we deserve. We're apparently all rich on the back of sky-rocketing house prices, a rock star economy (that only seems to be real to the rich people). Why would we slaughter the fat hog? This is apparently why we're tolerant of dirty politics and a PM that does what he wants with no accountability.

I'm representative of a certain age and type of Kiwi. I got my education, I worked hard, and I got nowhere fast here. I moved overseas, and there is massive opportunity and interesting projects. I meet a lot of Kiwi's in Sydney, Melbourne, San Francisco - all of whom are quietly homesick for somewhere that doesn't really exist for us anymore. We vote by moving overseas. We're not the ones who return, and if we do (like I am at the moment), it's to sell up everything here to make the overseas move forever.

The people remaining are being eroded by politics that suck, by economics that work only for the rich, and for the massive increase in nationalities from places that eat rice, curry, and sand.

[RDJ]

We don't want or opt to tolerate these deteriorating standards. We are forced to because thanks to politically correct media and self-appointed JournoLists' media whores, sunlight is no longer a disinfectant. The truth is drowned in the effluent of biased non-investigative journowhores.

[caspernz]

No idea whether Mark Lundy is guilty, nor do I really care. With several high profile cases in recent years being rehashed, I have perhaps an odd outlook on this topic. Take in the weaknesses in police investigative practices, and I can't help but think along the lines of...depending on ones' background/training in a previous lifetime...one could surmise it's kinda straightforward to get away with all manner of dodgy stuff in NZ.

[oldrider]

So you're an expert in this area?
Or is this another one of your half baked opinions?

As a matter of fact, a life insurance contract is one of the simplest legal contracts out there.
If the insurer declined on the basis of the conviction, and that conviction is overturned, I can't see how they could avoid paying.

Time will tell I guess - depending on the final outcome!

[Oscar]

Time will tell I guess - depending on the final outcome!

So you're saying that you'd rather not back up your (half-baked) opinion?
Do you have any thoughts on which part of the policy will be used to decline cover?
Or are you talking out of your dementia riddled arse?

[oldrider]

So you're saying that you'd rather not back up your (half-baked) opinion?
Do you have any thoughts on which part of the policy will be used to decline cover?
Or are you talking out of your dementia riddled arse?

Oh yes I love you too Oscar! (are you not getting enough attention didums)

[korimako1]

So you're an expert in this area?
Or is this another one of your half baked opinions?

As a matter of fact, a life insurance contract is one of the simplest legal contracts out there.
If the insurer declined on the basis of the conviction, and that conviction is overturned, I can't see how they could avoid paying.

Hey people, I wasn't going to comment but just to stop people getting carried away, the insurance policy was paid out to Christine Lundys estate. $200,000 the original policy, not the $500,000 as it hadn't been processed supposedly , her mother was the recipient of that. She went to court and had Mark Lundy removed from the Will. (All reported in the papers). After her death it would have distributed among her remaining children, Glenn Weggery being one. That's food for thought.

[Oscar]

Hey people, I wasn't going to comment but just to stop people getting carried away, the insurance policy was paid out to Christine Lundys estate. $200,000 the original policy, not the $500,000 as it hadn't been processed supposedly , her mother was the recipient of that. She went to court and had Mark Lundy removed from the Will. (All reported in the papers). After her death it would have distributed among her remaining children, Glenn Weggery being one. That's food for thought.

That's jolly interesting.
There's been some crap reporting about this aspect of the case.

[korimako1]

That's jolly interesting.
There's been some crap reporting about this aspect of the case.

oh yeah, they are a little more focussed this time around but still some very selective reporting at times. I suppose you don't want to annoy your most prolific news source by saying bad things about them.

[Paul in NZ]

No idea whether Mark Lundy is guilty, nor do I really care. With several high profile cases in recent years being rehashed, I have perhaps an odd outlook on this topic. Take in the weaknesses in police investigative practices, and I can't help but think along the lines of...depending on ones' background/training in a previous lifetime...one could surmise it's kinda straightforward to get away with all manner of dodgy stuff in NZ.

Or perhaps when some crimes are committed by cunning folks with good planning and an ounce of luck its a little harder than one thinks to prove it...

[pete376403]

Yes, you are correct, the incompetence level you are seeing reported is just the tip of the iceberg. there is plenty more to come. lots of coppers with early onset Alzheimer's.

Study Bain, Barlow, Ellis, Tamahere, Watson, Lundy and of course Thomas and you see a recurring theme of incompetence..

Looks like Teina Pora can be added to that list.

[Katman]

Looks like Teina Pora can be added to that list.

The Privy Council must be thoroughly sick of having to sit through reviews of New Zealand's judicial fuck ups.

[korimako1]

Looks like Teina Pora can be added to that list.

Yes , most definitely. my apologies, I should have included him.
After all these cases, surely a criminal cases review commission has to be established. we are talking about serious miscarriages of justice here, not failure to stop at a stop sign.