My first poll for the NZ public

[Brian d marge]

Stand by, the Japanese correspondent is about to enlighten us as to why business owners must avoid abundance, efficiency and sustainability at all costs.

I am STILL waiting for you to explain some of your sweepers ....... Entropy???

oh and the other idiot to explain why low interest rates are a good thing ( at least all he has to do is expand on his statement)

Stephen

[bogan]

Hold on to ur head ...its going to hurt.....



Abundance, Efficiency and Sustainability are, very simply, the enemies of profit. This scarcity logic also applies to the quality of goods. The idea of creating something that could last, say, a lifetime with little repair, is anathema to the market system, for it reduces consumption rates, which slows growth and creates systemic repercussions (loss of jobs, etc.). The scarcity attribute of the market system is nothing but detrimental for these reasons, not to mention that it doesn't even serve the role of efficient resource preservation, which is often claimed.

Stephen

See, you're still thinking in monopolistic terms. We have tonnes of goods that will last a lifetime, which kind of puts a gaping hole in your argument...

So to sum up Mashie ...( hope I have this right Mashie )

There are different point of detail but they share roughly similar points:

• Land shared between people with no title or ownership , eg Maori and plains Indians
  
  
• Shared means of production. Resulting in shared benefits of that production. ( a transport company in England where workers are shareholders of said company )

• Equality of resource sharing.
  
  
• common distribution of consumables / goods / commodities ( a fking big woolies )
  
• automation of the manufacturing process i.e. resources into semi-consumables and semi-consumables into consumables
  
• beyond the use of money, credit, barter, exchange, and all forms of interest bearing debt
  
• Removal of false scarcity

A move away from competitive behaviour to a cooperative behaviour - in order to overcome competitive behaviour or also the influence of pure greed,(shaming of persons that opt for a greedy individualistic Ideal ) Other ideals have to move up the priority list or in the common value system an example of this would be a proven example, Linux and the open Source community ( Android, Firefox web-browser ) In this example the Ideal of sharing knowledge in order to share the end result of a Operating system ....Though ....understanding where competition helps to sort out problems or options, and where cooperation is preferred in order to succeed

So, we would have a system of self imposed management of human and natural resources both locally and globally where the following happens:

• money is replaced by gratitude
  
• trading is replaced by gifting
  
• ownership is replaced by usership

in a way where everyone’s needs are met. This was the way Hunter gathers lived for thousands of years and have been reported to be the happiest most content people around

Stephen

Land ownership is one of mashy's wishy washy points. But we'll wait for him to chime in about the accuracy of your understanding...


trading is replaced by gifting

ownership is replaced by usership

These two do not get along. What if I chose to gift things to some people over others, how do the others get their usership then?

[mashman]

So to sum up Mashie ...( hope I have this right Mashie )

Sums a lot of it up quite well... for a capitalist

[Akzle]

These two do not get along. What if I chose to gift things to some people over others, how do the others get their usership then?

what do you own, to gift?

are you, god?

[mashman]

trading is replaced by gifting

ownership is replaced by usership

These two do not get along. What if I chose to gift things to some people over others, how do the others get their usership then?

uber understanding fail. Give it up bogan, you're simply not man enough to deal with your inner cunt.

[Brian d marge]

See, you're still thinking in monopolistic terms. We have tonnes of goods that will last a lifetime, which kind of puts a gaping hole in your argument...



Land ownership is one of mashy's wishy washy points. But we'll wait for him to chime in about the accuracy of your understanding...


trading is replaced by gifting

ownership is replaced by usership

These two do not get along. What if I chose to gift things to some people over others, how do the others get their usership then?

Hopefully your pacemaker would be one of those items ...

Sorry but ...that plastic bowl you bought from the 2 dollar shop WILL last a lifetime .... so I dont need to buy another .....My shoes ...of which I am just about to order ...Will , with repair last a life time ......

Hows that Money velocity .....slowing a bit Unfortunately companies sell shit , and the more shit they sell the more they make .....

I can make a car that will travel millions of kilometres ( I remove the dust from the air going into the engine ) ....but I cant sell many of them , unless I make them fashionable .....

gifting , sharing and usership....what part of that cant u understand ..... I have two beers , u have none ...I give you one beer ....you then use it ....Simple

Why would I give you a beer .... the simple fact you are a human being is good enough

No holes in this argument ....

Stephen

[mashman]

Hopefully your pacemaker would be one of those items ...

Sorry but ...that plastic bowl you bought from the 2 dollar shop WILL last a lifetime .... so I dont need to buy another .....My shoes ...of which I am just about to order ...Will , with repair last a life time ......

Hows that Money velocity .....slowing a bit Unfortunately companies sell shit , and the more shit they sell the more they make .....

I can make a car that will travel millions of kilometres ( I remove the dust from the air going into the engine ) ....but I cant sell many of them , unless I make them fashionable .....

gifting , sharing and usership....what part of that cant u understand ..... I have two beers , u have none ...I give you one beer ....you then use it ....Simple

Why would I give you a beer .... the simple fact you are a human being is good enough

No holes in this argument ....

Stephen

Cannot spread to thee again.

[Brian d marge]

Cannot spread to thee again.

I repected you in the morning . .

[bogan]

Hopefully your pacemaker would be one of those items ...

Sorry but ...that plastic bowl you bought from the 2 dollar shop WILL last a lifetime .... so I dont need to buy another .....My shoes ...of which I am just about to order ...Will , with repair last a life time ......

Hows that Money velocity .....slowing a bit Unfortunately companies sell shit , and the more shit they sell the more they make .....

I can make a car that will travel millions of kilometres ( I remove the dust from the air going into the engine ) ....but I cant sell many of them , unless I make them fashionable .....

gifting , sharing and usership....what part of that cant u understand ..... I have two beers , u have none ...I give you one beer ....you then use it ....Simple

Why would I give you a beer .... the simple fact you are a human being is good enough

No holes in this argument ....

Stephen

Not being able to sell things because they are not fashionable is consumer choice, do you wish to remove that choice?

That is gifting. The bit where they don't get along, is usership, you have two beers but don't want to give me one, but I want to use one. How do gifting and usership not come into conflict?

uber understanding fail. Give it up bogan, you're simply not man enough to deal with your inner cunt.

And let me guess, you'll not even attempt to correct this misunderstanding either?

[Brian d marge]

Not being able to sell things because they are not fashionable is consumer choice, do you wish to remove that choice?

That is gifting. The bit where they don't get along, is usership, you have two beers but don't want to give me one, but I want to use one. How do gifting and usership not come into conflict?



And let me guess, you'll not even attempt to correct this misunderstanding either?

Ya missed the point
Under the current system that exactly what is being promoted
My beer and u all can fk off

My house is worth some coin
. I worked hard for this so its my right to take equity out and get some bling

Short sighted and greedy selfish thinking that ruins life for all

Under mashies system . . .helo yourself to a beer its my pleasure to be in the position to be able to offer the beer

Next time u use linux you are doing the same thing . , by using and logging any bugs . . .u are helping everyone

[mashman]

And let me guess, you'll not even attempt to correct this misunderstanding either?

By managing my inner cunt I can see past usership. So yes, I'd give you my other beer.

[mashman]

I repected you in the morning . .

For some reason I feel violated.

[bogan]

Ya missed the point
Under the current system that exactly what is being promoted
My beer and u all can fk off

My house is worth some coin
. I worked hard for this so its my right to take equity out and get some bling

Short sighted and greedy selfish thinking that ruins life for all

Under mashies system . . .helo yourself to a beer its my pleasure to be in the position to be able to offer the beer

Next time u use linux you are doing the same thing . , by using and logging any bugs . . .u are helping everyone

Wrong, gifting is entirely possible and often done under the current system. There is nothing to stop an emergent 'R.B.E' except human nature. The same thing that will plunge the world into darkness if a forced RBE fails.

By managing my inner cunt I can see past usership. So yes, I'd give you my other beer.

What if you only had one to give, and Brian wanted one too?

[Brian d marge]

Wrong, gifting is entirely possible and often done under the current system. There is nothing to stop an emergent 'R.B.E' except human nature. The same thing that will plunge the world into darkness if a forced RBE fails.



What if you only had one to give, and Brian wanted one too?

Not the point i was making and you know it

And if we only had one beer between three people we have a distribution and or a supply problem and would probably end up sharing that one beer

[mashman]

What if you only had one to give, and Brian wanted one too?

We'd share. You'd just have to trust me that I wouldn't spit in it first.