ESE's works engine tuner

[Frits Overmars]

What happens with the ryger engine at part throttle in high revs, how does it respond?

I can't say with sufficient authority yet; I need more track experience.

This BMEP thing, apparent 207 psi at 17500 rpm (my calculation) how much of that figure is actual BMEP and how much is this figure influenced by the frctionlessness of the mechanical set up? In other words because the engine is so free running the actual cylinder pressure might be quite low or at least lower than we think.

Neil, I don't wanna know what a psi is (short for psychiatrist maybe?) but you are undoubtedly right in assuming that the difference between Indicated Mean Effective Pressure and Brake Mean Effective Pressure is smaller in the Ryger engine than in a conventional two-stroke.
The Ryger and the Aprilia RSA have about the same BMEP; we haven't yet measured the Ryger-IMEP yet; it may be a little bit lower than the RSA-IMEP.

reckon the early Kreidler racers blatantly copied this machine's transmission system (by using 2 gearboxes!)

Maybe; Kreidler used their 4-foot x 3-hand transmission from 1962 or '63. I couldn't find a date for mr. Morris' double-box Bantam.

[Flettner]

Frits, how is the Kart racing, have they sold you one yet

[WilDun]

[QUOTE=Frits Overmars;1130910970].

Maybe; Kreidler used their 4-foot x 3-hand transmission from 1962 or '63. I couldn't find a date for mr. Morris' double-box Bantam.
QUOTE]

Most probably in the late fifties (I dunno), but people were starting to get interested in disc valves around then, assuming of course that the carb sticking out the side was used with a disc valve.
Might have been a dummy just to impress!

[Leed]

"The Dutch engine Ryger Revo 125 comes from the development of an idea of Frits Overmars a dozen years ago - the
first on the left in the photo."
...having to rely on google to translate maybe a 12 year development of an idea
If the engine makes use of one of YOUR ideas - please reiterate that idea (your own Intellectual Property), thank you Frits



Wankel/rotaries are high output , compact but not particularly light engines...
what limited their market success, was fuel consumption...

IF the Ryger uses more fuel than the same output from a 'conventional' motor, then I see no point - not even in competition

you can get to 30,000 ft in a plane or a rocket.
if its not a more efficient motor, theres no need for patents
you may make one facet of motorsport somewhat more environmentally friendly, but is that just a pimple to the pollution of NHRA/Indy/Nascar etc

[husaberg]

I can't say with sufficient authority yet; I need more track experience.

Neil, I don't wanna know what a psi is (short for psychiatrist maybe?) but you are undoubtedly right in assuming that the difference between Indicated Mean Effective Pressure and Brake Mean Effective Pressure is smaller in the Ryger engine than in a conventional two-stroke.
The Ryger and the Aprilia RSA have about the same BMEP; we haven't yet measured the Ryger-IMEP yet; it may be a little bit lower than the RSA-IMEP.

Maybe; Kreidler used their 4-foot x 3-hand transmission from 1962 or '63. I couldn't find a date for mr. Morris' double-box Bantam.

207PSI =14.27 Bar

This one Brian Woolley did in the 60's had a small overdrive box on the rear axel giving the four speed Yamaha 8 ratios.
http://www.elsberg-tuning.dk/yamaha.html

its a Go-matic


http://hondatrailcts.yuku.com/reply/38349#.VhtSjcuheUk

http://chalopy.blogspot.co.nz/2009/12/go-matic.html

[WilDun]

I actually remember that one but forgot about the gearing system! Quite clever I reckon when there was nothing commercially available in anything over four speed, at least not in that size anyway.
I actually have that photo of him with the bike, in an old scrapbook somewhere.

I think that there was a 6 speed Schafleitner box avaliable for the Manx Norton etc. (maybe 1961?)

[peewee]

did the cylinder have a reed valve inlet welded on ? thats what it looks like anyways. the rear ears where the cylinder studs are look taller also

[Frits Overmars]

Frits, how is the Kart racing, have they sold you one yet?

Sold? As in me paying money? Nah. They are preparing one for me.
I already have the distinction of being the oldest man that ever drove a Ryger kart. Now they want me to return to racing .

"The Dutch engine Ryger Revo 125 comes from the development of an idea of Frits Overmars a dozen years ago."

That's what the Italian article says, but it's not correct. The engine was Harry Ryger's idea.

IF the Ryger uses more fuel than the same output from a 'conventional' motor, then I see no point..

You may have some more reading to do, Leed. It has repeatedly been stated that the Ryger engine is stronger, cleaner and more efficient than a conventional two-stroke. It uses less fuel per HP and it only needs a small radiator.

[Lightbulb]

More gold from Frits to add to the reubix cube.
Neil

[Flettner]

Sold? As in me paying money? Nah.
They are preparing one for me. I already have the distinction of being the oldest man that ever drove a Ryger kart. Now they want me to return to racing .

That's what the Italian article says, but it's not correct. The engine was Harry Ryger's idea.

I think you will have some more reading to do, Leed. It has repeatedly been stated that the Ryger engine is stronger, cleaner and more efficient.
It uses less fuel per HP and it only needs a small radiator.

Smaller radiator? So the extra power is arriving from less energy being pushed into the head and cylinder and other parts. Is there less or more heat in the exhaust at 70 HP? You know Frits if I didn't know better I would still maintain there is some trickery in the crank shaft. Being able to extract more energy from the combustion, less wasted out the exhaust. But I know better than that because you said as such. I still maintain there are several levels of Ryger tech and we are just being allowed to "sniff" the first level.
I think Harry really needs to quantify what he's got combustion wise, clearly it works but how much better could it be? Perhaps we could help, I know a quiet little cost effective R and D shop out in the middle of nowhere. Time is counting down.

[Flettner]

did the cylinder have a reed valve inlet welded on ? thats what it looks like anyways. the rear ears where the cylinder studs are look taller also

Yes it certainly looks that way

[husaberg]

Smaller radiator? So the extra power is arriving from less energy being pushed into the head and cylinder and other parts. Is there less or more heat in the exhaust at 70 HP? You know Frits if I didn't know better I would still maintain there is some trickery in the crank shaft. Being able to extract more energy from the combustion, less wasted out the exhaust. But I know better than that because you said as such. I still maintain there are several levels of Ryger tech and we are just being allowed to "sniff" the first level.
I think Harry really needs to quantify what he's got combustion wise, clearly it works but how much better could it be? Perhaps we could help, I know a quiet little cost effective R and D shop out in the middle of nowhere. Time is counting down.

Lean mixtures are not hotter running
If the mixture is leaned below F/A ratio of 0.067 (stoichiometric mixture) the mixture temperatures and power both decrease. This loss of power as the mixture is leaned, a point is reached where the greatest power per unit of fuel is achieved. This greatest power per unit of fuel (the lowest fuel consumption per horsepower) is named the best economy mixture.

[WilDun]

Lean mixtures are not hotter running
This greatest power per unit of fuel (the lowest fuel consumption per horsepower) is named the best economy mixture.

Does the more efficient combustion (and cooler) mean that the piston (or whatever you'd call it now) doesn't require drastic cooling (from a rich mixture) anymore! (no skirt to seize perhaps?).
Or am I way off track?

[husaberg]

Does the more efficient combustion (and cooler) mean that the piston (or whatever you'd call it now) doesn't require drastic cooling (from a rich mixture) anymore! (no skirt to seize perhaps?).
Or am I way off track?

No idea and can just remember it from Tech years ago I stole most of the words from google. Remember we are talking a minutely percentagewise leaner mixture. highest power out put is achieved at well over .67 ie something like .08 and that runs cooler as well as it is fuel cooled. they is an other figure inbetween that is the max power ecomony, These figures are foul strokes and based on steady speeds
Also Harry might have figured away to turn more of the fuel into actual work rather than into by products such as heat.
One thing though faster burn with less advance results in a cooler running engine.

[Leed]

I dare say efficiency has been used a hundred times in the last 100 pages (which of course is browser and setting dependent - i see 1334 pages) all of which i am not about to read everything.
Each use of Efficiency has been in a different context - pumping effieciency, frictional, emissions, specific horsepower etc etc
Mostly efficiency is thrown into a statement to make a post seem more substantial than it would be

All engines make more power with more air and fuel - in over 100 years this has never changed - this is not more efficient
When you say IT IS Thermodynamically more efficient (more power, less wasted heat), it is something we CAN all be excited about with good reason

A cello has a frequency response that is different to a violin.
Is the Rygers higher operating frequency due to decreased pump volume or speed/harmonics in a hotter gas
or both
If the piston is thermally insulated (but possibly oil pressure lubricated in one of two scenarios) then it no longer sinks heat energy to the cooling system - so more work is done/extracted to rotation. Without area calculation this probably at least 1/6th to quarter recoverable energy
The side benefit of motor running cooler helps charge stay cooler - 30 years ago people might laugh if you said your car ran at 55-60degC



The logo means something right - TO ME it is a plan view of the piston in cylinder not touching wall cushioned by gas
But it also reminds me of the connecting rodless engine from ?Nelson? abouth 15 years ago that was going to revolutionise the world also
Like too the water powered ones that appear ever 25 years or so (to be headlines for new population/generation)