Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

**ellipsis** · 7th October 2015, 17:41

Originally Posted by Moto-Dynamix

Imposible I know, but man it would be good to be able to follow a healthy thread, with out all slagging and bitch talk at each other on here, but guess that will never happen on here, shame really, as there are a lot of very healthy threads started, that just turn to shit with hero attacks, that just turn me of following them any further, to educate myself more about life etc. It is like being back in the primers at school again

...should we start an exclusive, 'Ginga' thread...no swearing or silly ideas would be tolerated and grammar would have to be spot on...('pon thinkin' on that, it just ain't gonna work)...

**gjm** · 13th October 2015, 10:09

Europe has it's own Trade agreement negotiations under way, the TTIP - the Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. Anyone spot who is sitting in the middle of all this? Yup, the US.

Any demonstrations against the TPPA we have had here pale into insignificance when compared to those in Europe. Nearly 4 million people have signed petitions, and there were 250000 people at a single anti-TTIP rally against in Berlin.

The worst bit? Summed up by EU Trade Commissioner, Cecilia Malmström, who is responsible for the TTIP in Europe: I do not take my mandate from the European people.

So, regardless of protest, demonstration or even overwhelming evidence to suggest the TTIP is not viable, or just generally A Very Bad Idea, Malmström will continue to work for it because she does not have accountability to the public who will be affected.

It is very likely the same is true with the TPPA. Has anyone asked Groser who he gets his mandate from? I don't doubt doublespeak and evasion would follow, but I also doubt he'll say "I'm working in the best interests of the NZ public."

**Brian d marge** · 13th October 2015, 11:43

Originally Posted by gjm

Europe has it's own Trade agreement negotiations under way, the TTIP - the Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. Anyone spot who is sitting in the middle of all this? Yup, the US.

Any demonstrations against the TPPA we have had here pale into insignificance when compared to those in Europe. Nearly 4 million people have signed petitions, and there were 250000 people at a single anti-TTIP rally against in Berlin.

The worst bit? Summed up by EU Trade Commissioner, Cecilia Malmström, who is responsible for the TTIP in Europe: I do not take my mandate from the European people.

So, regardless of protest, demonstration or even overwhelming evidence to suggest the TTIP is not viable, or just generally A Very Bad Idea, Malmström will continue to work for it because she does not have accountability to the public who will be affected.

It is very likely the same is true with the TPPA. Has anyone asked Groser who he gets his mandate from? I don't doubt doublespeak and evasion would follow, but I also doubt he'll say "I'm working in the best interests of the NZ public."

As i mentioned a few months back

There is a worse agreement lurking

Of which little is known . But the little that is . . People have said . Is worse that the tppa

Its called Tisa . .trade in services agreement

I was reading an in depth analysis about it on stuff.co.baa

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**Brian d marge** · 13th October 2015, 11:43

Originally Posted by gjm

Europe has it's own Trade agreement negotiations under way, the TTIP - the Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. Anyone spot who is sitting in the middle of all this? Yup, the US.

Any demonstrations against the TPPA we have had here pale into insignificance when compared to those in Europe. Nearly 4 million people have signed petitions, and there were 250000 people at a single anti-TTIP rally against in Berlin.

The worst bit? Summed up by EU Trade Commissioner, Cecilia Malmström, who is responsible for the TTIP in Europe: I do not take my mandate from the European people.

So, regardless of protest, demonstration or even overwhelming evidence to suggest the TTIP is not viable, or just generally A Very Bad Idea, Malmström will continue to work for it because she does not have accountability to the public who will be affected.

It is very likely the same is true with the TPPA. Has anyone asked Groser who he gets his mandate from? I don't doubt doublespeak and evasion would follow, but I also doubt he'll say "I'm working in the best interests of the NZ public."

The french do wonderful haircuts

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**gjm** · 13th October 2015, 12:00

"The role of the Government under a representative democracy is to represent the will of the people, not to negotiate a trade [TPP] deal in strict secrecy, sign on, and then tell the people they are supposed to represent to accept it. That form of governing has a name and it's certainly not called democracy..."

- Senator Ricky Muir, Victoria, Australia.

**Brian d marge** · 13th October 2015, 12:02

Originally Posted by gjm

"The role of the Government under a representative democracy is to represent the will of the people, not to negotiate a trade [TPP] deal in strict secrecy, sign on, and then tell the people they are supposed to represent to accept it. That form of governing has a name and it's certainly not called democracy..."

- Senator Ricky Muir, Victoria, Australia.

See my signature

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**Brian d marge** · 13th October 2015, 13:15

The high court has found the goverment failed in that the requests for tppa documents where denied ...this means (imho) that because due process wasnt followed then the agreement is null and void , ...lets hope so

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**gjm** · 13th October 2015, 13:21

Originally Posted by Brian d marge

The high court has found the goverment failed in that the requests for tppa documents where denied ...this means (imho) that because due process wasnt followed then the agreement is null and void , ...lets hope so

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Aye. Fingers crossed.

**oldrider** · 13th October 2015, 17:23

Originally Posted by Brian d marge

The high court has found the goverment failed in that the requests for tppa documents where denied ...this means (imho) that because due process wasnt followed then the agreement is null and void , ...lets hope so

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Originally Posted by gjm

Aye. Fingers crossed.

Interesting!

They should revisit the core values of government - they are not a law unto themselves - unfortunately, none of those on offer would be any different!

**Winston001** · 17th October 2015, 00:06

Feet on the ground guys. The facts are boring but that is how conspiracies are unwound.

Every country trades with others. For various reasons, many countries have created barriers to free trade in order to protect their own industries. Using import tarrifs.

However there is a substantial cost for each country and that is problematic. Should your community pay $100 for shoes when they could buy them for $20? All in order to protect maybe 1000 local people? It is a warm comforting idea but the 4 million non-shoe workers disagree. Etc...

**Winston001** · 17th October 2015, 00:14

Thus free trade agreements against barriers have arisen over the last 50 years and that is also why there are international negotiations to remove barriers. The biggest change was the European Economic Community under the Treaty of Rome 1957 which lead to today's EU. Open trading, no barriers.

The North American Free Trade Agreement 1994 between Canada, Mexico, and the USA was a significant step towards world open trading.

**Winston001** · 17th October 2015, 03:53

The essence of the TransPacific Partnership Agreement is that the partner nations agree to treat each other as similar countries.

That means we in NZ treat a Japanese or Malaysian business the same as a New Zealand business. No prejudice.

And if we want to set up a factory in Japan or Malaysia, no problem.

**Brian d marge** · 17th October 2015, 04:41

Originally Posted by Winston001

The essence of the TransPacific Partnership Agreement is that the partner nations agree to treat each other as similar countries.

That means we in NZ treat a Japanese or Malaysian business the same as a New Zealand business. No preijudice.

And if we want to set up a factory in Japan or Malaysia, no prpblem.

In all due respect I think you had better read the thing ..as much as is available , then wonder why some people a lot smarterer than you and i are against it

imho it wealth transfer by big money

farms, land and houses I think will be the first things to go

**Shaun Harris** · 17th October 2015, 06:24

Originally Posted by Winston001

The essence of the TransPacific Partnership Agreement is that the partner nations agree to treat each other as similar countries.

That means we in NZ treat a Japanese or Malaysian business the same as a New Zealand business. No preijudice.

And if we want to set up a factory in Japan or Malaysia, no prpblem.

That is just the base info that the GVT have led the media to dictate to us, why has it all been so quite and hush hush if it really was as you have described. Our little pond of a country cannot compete with any other, maybe samoa tonga etc, but that is where it end's. It brings me to the flag, if we are going to spend that amount of money for perty piece of cloth, why do we not also say NO to the TPP also, and stand on our own, which we can do. It all just comes down too, people with money and power, basically playing games, with the only potentuall loss to them being, pride only. We the voters/workers, are just the pawns in there game.

**Shaun Harris** · 17th October 2015, 06:26

Originally Posted by Brian d marge

The high court has found the goverment failed in that the requests for tppa documents where denied ...this means (imho) that because due process wasnt followed then the agreement is null and void , ...lets hope so

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That was the first thing I thought when I saw it on the news, and look on the guys face being interviewed, he knew 100% he had screwed up