ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

The back story so far.

Attachment 318266

Where we are now, Blue = best with no dam, Red best of where we are now at with an exhaust dam.

Next move is to start opening up the "A" transfer ports and pointing them more towards the center of the cylinder for more power by taking advantage of the short circuiting blocking powers of the exhaust dam. Here is hoping.

Chambers widened up the "A" ports, did a good job considering our clumsy tools he had to work with. Kel brought around his dinky little right angle air grinder, it is great for 50mm 100cc bores but sadly too big for the 41mm 50 cylinder.



Exhaust port dam ... Blue = Standard "A" ports, Red = Widened "A" ports. Useful improvement in bottom end power.



Green is the best we have managed without the Exhaust port dam, so still some work to do yet.

[Frits Overmars]

Frits posted this in Foundry Thread
Attachment 318339

[/QUOTE]So you can be sure it's not the Ryger crank, Yow Ling. If it were, I would not yet be allowed to post it.

Exhaust port dam ... Blue = Standard "A" ports, Red = Widened "A" ports. Useful improvement in bottom end power.

That is what you can expect when short-circuiting from the A-ports into the exhaust lowers the EGT, Rob.

[TZ350]

That is what you can expect when short-circuiting from the A-ports into the exhaust lowers the EGT, Rob.

Hi Frits, are you saying that, that lower improvement in the Red line is more likely due to short-circuiting and not better trapping by the Dam? I thought we were doing well, but could it be, we have to re visit the "A" port angles.

[breezy]

TZ350, do you think that short circuiting will always occur from somewhere to some extent? and the dam in the exhaust has changed from where the short circuiting is now occurring. Looks like the dam is really upsetting all the other parameters?/ scavenging pattern?

[peewee]

Hi David, yes I got the PM with your home address, but not an email.

The Lambda I use is from Innovate Motorsports with a Bosch heated wideband, and it can read out in various formats.
It will convert directly to A/F ratio, Lambda Number, or 0-5V, I use the A/F ratio as an input direct to the dyno datalogger so as to see
the power overlayed with A/F as well as deto etc.
The probe is in the front of the muffler,with a threaded insert that sits right on top of the perf tube.
It has a gauge reading out A/F, but you for sure havnt time to watch that when doing a dyno run.

One take on the dam idea affecting the top end so much, is that is exactly the effect you see by putting a 75% nozzle in the duct exit when running a sim.
This is why I thought the next step should be to extend the floor right out the flange face.
Gaining all that top end means you have an option to redesign the pipe for better mid, or use the overev capability and use the pipe to make even more power up top.

The Ryger homologation is due to be published publicly by the CIK on the 1st Jan.
I will be onto the site all day looking for the info we all are screaming for.

is this one you use ? http://www.lectronfuelsystems.com/pr...ensor_kit.html

[TZ350]

TZ350, do you think that short circuiting will always occur from somewhere to some extent? and the dam in the exhaust has changed from where the short circuiting is now occurring. Looks like the dam is really upsetting all the other parameters?/ scavenging pattern?

Yes, the dam has not been an instant success, still not finished with it yet. We have better (13.5hp) 50's but want to explore the dam idea a bit further.

Our porting tools are pretty clumsy and not at all suited for 50's so the ports could be better shaped. We might have to bite the bullet and upgrade our tooling.

Also we have not got as far as trying Wobblys suggestion of checking the Mac numbers in Engmod (requires some learning on my part) and extending the dam further in the exhaust duct to keep up the gas velocity. That will require a completely new dam which is a bit of hard work to make.

[TZ350]

That is what you can expect when short-circuiting from the A-ports into the exhaust lowers the EGT, Rob.

Hi Frits, Chambers did comment that it was not running as hot, at the time I thought it was a good thing. .... lots to think about....

[TZ350]

These are the basic hand porting tools we have to work with. Chambers has done pretty well with them but they are just to clumsy for 50cc engines.



This basic approach to porting unlocked good power from the Suzuki GP engines. We were hoping for something similar from the exhaust port dam idea, big results from a simple approach.

[breezy]

Yes, the dam has not been an instant success, still not finished with it yet. We have better (13.5hp) 50's but want to explore the dam idea a bit further.

Our porting tools are pretty clumsy and not at all suited for 50's so the ports could be better shaped. We might have to bite the bullet and upgrade our tooling.

Also we have not got as far as trying Wobblys suggestion of checking the Mac numbers in Engmod (requires some learning on my part) and extending the dam further in the exhaust duct to keep up the gas velocity. That will require a completely new dam which is a bit of hard work to make.

i think Luc Foekema may be able to point you in the right direction without the raising the exhaust port floor. ask him, seems to be a nice bloke(facebook)

[wobbly]

Thats what I alluded to re tracking EGT with a really fast response probe ( open tip, Stinger from EGT Industries - guaranteed for 2 years ) and datalogging it against power.
If the egt has dropped from say 650 to 600, then it would need at least 2 jets leaner to get back to your baseline.
2 jets is night and day power wise, and peak power rpm wise.
And as you well know, if the mid has gone rich in relation to the top,then you will need to adjust the air correction to skew the fuel curve as well.


This is the controller I use for the Lambda,and this sends the A/F corrected numbers to the dyno datalogger - 12.8:1 makes alot more sense to me than 0.9 Lambda ever did.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc2.php

[karter444]

Chambers widened up the "A" ports, did a good job considering our clumsy tools he had to work with. Kel brought around his dinky little right angle air grinder, it is great for 50mm 100cc bores but sadly too big for the 41mm 50 cylinder.



Exhaust port dam ... Blue = Standard "A" ports, Red = Widened "A" ports. Useful improvement in bottom end power.



Green is the best we have managed without the Exhaust port dam, so still some work to do yet.

two easy things that you could try
maybe grind a large angle on the duct side of the dam , this may help the returning air fuel mixture being forced back into the cylinder by the action of the pipe
maybe grind the centre out of the dam , turn it into a V shape , it may help with flow in and out of the port , but still replicate large lower port radius
cheers

[TZ350]

two easy things that you could try, maybe grind a large angle on the duct side of the dam , this may help the returning air fuel mixture being forced back into the cylinder by the action of the pipe.

We have that now. Wob suggests extending it out to the end of the duct to keep the gas velocity up. He also suggests I model the exhaust duct carefully in EngMod and look at the pressure wave in the exhaust duct to see if its suffering sonic choking. I intend doing that but it requires me to take the time to up skill my abilities with Engmod a bit first.

maybe grind the centre out of the dam , turn it into a V shape , it may help with flow in and out of the port , but still replicate large lower port radius
cheers

Yes good idea, we will try it maybe after cleaning up the A port.

[TZ350]

I think Luc Foekema may be able to point you in the right direction without the raising the exhaust port floor. ask him, seems to be a nice bloke(facebook)

Ok, I now have got a facebook page thingy, (thanks to 11 year old grandson) even been accepted as a friend by Luc but I have not quite mastered Facebook well enough to use it very successfully, just need a bit of practice with it I guess.

[kel]

Looks like the dam is really upsetting all the other parameters?/ scavenging pattern?

I was wondering about this myself. The hooks in the B ports force flow under the bulk incoming scavenge charge to help expel the previous cycles residual burnt charge, the raised exhaust port floor maybe impacting on this.



Maybe you could try lowering the centre of the port some, along the lines of the RSA exhaust port shape,

and radius the lower edge?

[TZ350]

Attachment 263028

Ok mine turned up today.

Attachment 263027

And a couple of two wire sensors I picked up cheap from the local garage.

There has been some questions about a knock gauge sensors and detection module. The module that I use came from:- http://www.knockgauge.eu/ there is more information in the links list on page 1410