Hi-Viz - I do not think that word means what you think it means (Princess Bride ref)

[eldog]

Further re positioning, I've found that life is better with my wife when we try different positions.

like when she wears the blue suit and your doing the housework

must be the beer?

[TheDemonLord]

Not sure I understand the question.

Mandatory helmet use has probably saved a life or two. As far as I'm concerned that is insufficient justification to make the law a moral thing to do. We've probably all done things out of ignorance that could've been fatal and probably have been for some. That doesn't mean they should be outlawed.

I'd say you've answered the question. Although I'm not a fan of the legislation, I always have a mental debate about the benefits of legislating for the lowest common denominator, especially when there is little negative impact.

Oh and Ras:

I'd love to sit and discuss this over a beer with anyone. Nothing would change, but at least we would have had a beer.

So long as you are buying

[swbarnett]

I'd say you've answered the question. Although I'm not a fan of the legislation, I always have a mental debate about the benefits of legislating for the lowest common denominator, especially when there is little negative impact.

In my mind there is no debate. The "lowest common denominator" has as much right to make their own decisions about their body and mind as you or I. It's not our place to decide for someone else how much negative impact there is.

Efforts to make that an informed decision are another matter entirely.

[haydes55]

Can we please let stupid people collect their Darwin awards before they breed more stupid people. The best long term health and safety strategy would be to less legislation.

[nzspokes]

Riding in pink Hiz viz with a flashing light on your head will make fuck all difference when the driver is updating FB on the phone while driving.

As we dont have an effective traffic policing system the only thing we can do is look out for the stupid drivers, which is most of them.

[AllanB]

Most are not stupid. Just making poor choices.

Back when I was 15 and started driving they used to add window banners to cars in car yards stating things like '5 speed' or 'heater' on the used cars. Hi-tech was a decent FM radio with a cassette slot (ask Dad if you don't know what that is).

Now days they advertise new cars on TV as 'bluetooth' 'satnav' 'rear passenger DVD players' and shit like that. We are so electroniced to fuck every day that being told not to use such devices in the car feels just wrong. Good luck telling the current generation they cannot.

Surely each vehicle could be fitted with a proximity jamming device for your phone. But it would probably stuff up your sat-nav too. Make them band specific?

Riding through town yesterday on my way to see the folks the 20 year olds in the car in front of me were emptying the fast-food bags and wrappers out their windows while sitting at the traffic lights. Bloody inner city is broken enough without the public littering. So with people having the mentality of that action they are not giving a shit morally about the rest of us and a hi-viz jacket will only give them something to aim at when hurling the next lot of rubbish.

[Old Steve]

I'd like to introduce something from the world of vehicle mechanics. An engine operates on oil flow, not oil pressure (earings and sliding components operate under a wedge of oil, google hydrodynamic lubrication). To prove this, imagine an oil system with a valve fitted just after the oil pressure gauge. Close the valve, oil flow becomes zero, oil pressure reads the maximum, engine quickly stops. So why are vehicles fitted with oil pressure gauges? Because of the cost of an oil flow meter - an oil gauge is the cheaper option.

Same with policing speed. It's not speed that's the problem, it's dangerous driving. OK, some dangerous driving involves excess speed. But it's easier to measure speed and say, "You were travelling at 120 km/hr" than to make a case for dangerous driving. Dangerous driving is a qualitative measure, how dangerous, what is the skill level of the driver, and who's opinion defines it as dangerous. Speed is a quantitative measurement, this approved speed gun measured your vehicle travelling at 120 km/hr.

So measuring speed is an easier option, and the police have perhaps come to focus on speed as the be all and end all of road safety. Do they in fact look for dangerous driving? A car being driven dangerously (and SMIDSY is an absolute admission of dangerous driving, it means they weren't looking for other road users). Maybe not dangerous driving per se, careless driving that is dangerous, driving without due care and attention. But still potentially lethal below most posted speeds.

But it's easier to measure speed than to verify dangerous driving, so that is (and will continue to be) what the police focus on.

On the matter of Hi-viz, I don't know if it makes a difference or not. I've seen cars pull out despite my best efforts of doing the happy biker weave before a potential SMIDSY intersection and wearing hi-vis and a white helmet. But it just might, so I'll continue to wear hi-vis. And continue to watch other road users, watch hands on steering wheels and the movement of front wheels, check if parked cars have a driver in them, have a "what if" plan at all times and all the other personal awareness tricks. Hi-viz might not make a difference but I'll wear it just in case it does that one time that it matters.

[TheDemonLord]

I'd like to introduce something from the world of vehicle mechanics. An engine operates on oil flow, not oil pressure (earings and sliding components operate under a wedge of oil, google hydrodynamic lubrication). To prove this, imagine an oil system with a valve fitted just after the oil pressure gauge. Close the valve, oil flow becomes zero, oil pressure reads the maximum, engine quickly stops. So why are vehicles fitted with oil pressure gauges? Because of the cost of an oil flow meter - an oil gauge is the cheaper option.

Same with policing speed. It's not speed that's the problem, it's dangerous driving. OK, some dangerous driving involves excess speed. But it's easier to measure speed and say, "You were travelling at 120 km/hr" than to make a case for dangerous driving. Dangerous driving is a qualitative measure, how dangerous, what is the skill level of the driver, and who's opinion defines it as dangerous. Speed is a quantitative measurement, this approved speed gun measured your vehicle travelling at 120 km/hr.

So measuring speed is an easier option, and the police have perhaps come to focus on speed as the be all and end all of road safety. Do they in fact look for dangerous driving? A car being driven dangerously (and SMIDSY is an absolute admission of dangerous driving, it means they weren't looking for other road users). Maybe not dangerous driving per se, careless driving that is dangerous, driving without due care and attention. But still potentially lethal below most posted speeds.

But it's easier to measure speed than to verify dangerous driving, so that is (and will continue to be) what the police focus on.

On the matter of Hi-viz, I don't know if it makes a difference or not. I've seen cars pull out despite my best efforts of doing the happy biker weave before a potential SMIDSY intersection and wearing hi-vis and a white helmet. But it just might, so I'll continue to wear hi-vis. And continue to watch other road users, watch hands on steering wheels and the movement of front wheels, check if parked cars have a driver in them, have a "what if" plan at all times and all the other personal awareness tricks. Hi-viz might not make a difference but I'll wear it just in case it does that one time that it matters.

This.

X1,000,000,000,000,000,000

[rambaldi]

Pulsing settings on LED driving lights are getting more popular too. Very noticeable even during the day, but alas, also illegal.

Wish that enforcement would spread to the lycra brigade. I don't need a seizure to go with my blindness thank you very much.

[Swoop]

Hi-tech was a decent FM radio with a cassette slot (ask Dad if you don't know what that is).

Funnily enough...

I have been driving a car recently, which not only HAS a cassette deck AND FM stereo... it also has a selection of tapes. Billy T's greatest hits and other goodies!
Luckily, it is also equipped with a 5-speed manual transmission.



I have come to the conclusion that automatic transmission cars need to be banned. Immediately.
Playing (who said raping?) around with a gearshift keeps the hands OFF of the cellphone.
"Yoof" might learn a thing or two about "driving" a car.





(I'm still sorely tempted to biff the tape reel out of the window, just for old time's sakes!)

[RDJ]

Funnily enough...

I have been driving a car recently, which not only HAS a cassette deck AND FM stereo... it also has a selection of tapes. Billy T's greatest hits and other goodies!
Luckily, it is also equipped with a 5-speed manual transmission.



I have come to the conclusion that automatic transmission cars need to be banned. Immediately.
Playing (who said raping?) around with a gearshift keeps the hands OFF of the cellphone.
"Yoof" might learn a thing or two about "driving" a car.





(I'm still sorely tempted to biff the tape reel out of the window, just for old time's sakes!)

Many people do not know how to drive any more, they just inhabit the mobile platform. Especially, Glendowie and Thornton. But do add your own.

[James Deuce]

Oh, and fuck hi-vis, probably the least useful safety measure ever foisted on us by an ill qualified and over indulged safety industry.

Who didn't do any research to even vaguely try to understand the visual cortex and how it functions. Humans can't see for shit quite frankly. We have a standard model of visual perception that we hold in our brain, made up from experience. We modify that model to suit changing circumstance. Our eyes see smoothly by turning off when we move our head. Think about that for a second. Our eyes turn off many times a second so we experience a smoothly panning modification to our standard model.

Fighter Pilots and special forces people are trained to really look, to observe and modify their standard model via visual input by really studying their environment and perceiving the changes rather than the standard model. This can only be learned via training and is the first thing that needs to smashed into any road user's brain. Won't matter soon, because personally-piloted transport will be banned and the car you own will drive itself. There is simply no point to a motorcycle-like form of transport in that world.

Enjoy it while you still have it.

[nzspokes]

Funnily enough...

I have been driving a car recently, which not only HAS a cassette deck AND FM stereo... it also has a selection of tapes. Billy T's greatest hits and other goodies!
Luckily, it is also equipped with a 5-speed manual transmission.



I have come to the conclusion that automatic transmission cars need to be banned. Immediately.
Playing (who said raping?) around with a gearshift keeps the hands OFF of the cellphone.
"Yoof" might learn a thing or two about "driving" a car.





(I'm still sorely tempted to biff the tape reel out of the window, just for old time's sakes!)

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I started driving in a Series 1 landrover in a field. After learning that I can drive pretty much anything with gears. None of my staff can drive a manual.

[AllanB]

Call post above re speed. Ironically this long wekend I have on two occasions come across very dangerous driving that involved to slow a speed for the open road ....... you know the arses - doing 70 max in a 100 zone - twenty irritated vehicles behind them.........

[Ocean1]

Won't matter soon, because personally-piloted transport will be banned and the car you own will drive itself. There is simply no point to a motorcycle-like form of transport in that world.

Enjoy it while you still have it.

I am.

And while it's a bit of a race as to whether advancing personal infirmity or advancing political infirmity deprives me of my motorbike I'm preparing for the occasion by collecting the necessary components for mobility scooter.

This caught my eye last week: http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...1024878987.htm but I'm not sure if I can integrate the ABS etc...