My first poll for the NZ public

[Brian d marge]

I suppose for that plan to work you have to be the one who writes the history.

George Bush" the coalition of the willing ( aka us and the Brit poodles) get rid of Saddam, everyone loves us and all my cronies make some cash...what can possibly go wrong ..win win no"

Worked for dubya dubya 2 as the Victors wrote the history.

Hahaha that's true up until the Internet age ...and then it gets....kb'ed

In venician politics third place plays 1 and 2 off against each other
US being 1 that leaves britain and Israel 2 and three and since the venician power base is London.......
If Israel is to become a world power it would have to a. Beef up its army or b. Shrink the people it suppresses...
And I think Russia knows this
Imho

sent for a divine source

[Jin]

I have the book ..it's a tough read

sent for a divine source

You should have another go. Will change your life and thinking.

[Akzle]

Will change your life and thinking.

yet couldn't trigger either in you...

[mashman]

yet couldn't trigger either in you...

bwaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaa

[bogan]

I was watching Hayeks road to serfdom and thought it represented these rbe nutjobs perfectly

To be fair, they're not all nutjobs. The guy who originally coined the term for the second time is actually pretty onto it; The Venus Project bloke. He understands the realities, but is also optimistic about creating a better one from within. It's the raving loons like mashy who change what their version of an RBE means simply to sound good, that sort of shit is what gives it a bad name. Seriously, the parallels with moronic politicians like trump just saying what they think masses want to hear, while concealing all the logic and reasoning to dispute it, are fucking hilarious (I managed to get mashy to talk about it once, I completely eviscerated his uneducated naivity, so now he gets all shitty and repeats the 'but you don't understand' line and never discusses and specifics). At least these dumb fucks are getting nowhere so it's the good kind of hilarious, unlike trumpy who funny and scary all at the same time.

[mashman]

To be fair, they're not all nutjobs. The guy who originally coined the term for the second time is actually pretty onto it; The Venus Project bloke. He understands the realities, but is also optimistic about creating a better one from within. It's the raving loons like mashy who change what their version of an RBE means simply to sound good, that sort of shit is what gives it a bad name. Seriously, the parallels with moronic politicians like trump just saying what they think masses want to hear, while concealing all the logic and reasoning to dispute it, are fucking hilarious (I managed to get mashy to talk about it once, I completely eviscerated his uneducated naivity, so now he gets all shitty and repeats the 'but you don't understand' line and never discusses and specifics). At least these dumb fucks are getting nowhere so it's the good kind of hilarious, unlike trumpy who funny and scary all at the same time.

When did we talk about it?... and I'll happily wear loon if the alternative is some other label that you guys wear.

See, when someone says to me, 'but you don't understand', I generally accept that I don't. I thought that's how things worked. I guess not.

Hey bogan, perhaps you can spare me some of the pain of my life and tell me, how am I going to feel tomorrow and what am I going to be wrong about? forewarned is forearmed like.

[Jin]

To be fair, they're not all nutjobs. The guy who originally coined the term for the second time is actually pretty onto it; The Venus Project bloke. He understands the realities, but is also optimistic about creating a better one from within. It's the raving loons like mashy who change what their version of an RBE means simply to sound good, that sort of shit is what gives it a bad name. Seriously, the parallels with moronic politicians like trump just saying what they think masses want to hear, while concealing all the logic and reasoning to dispute it, are fucking hilarious (I managed to get mashy to talk about it once, I completely eviscerated his uneducated naivity, so now he gets all shitty and repeats the 'but you don't understand' line and never discusses and specifics). At least these dumb fucks are getting nowhere so it's the good kind of hilarious, unlike trumpy who funny and scary all at the same time.

I would class Jacque Fresco as one of the nutjobs. A well meaning nutjob. But still a nutjob. The bottom line for these guys is that they consider the problem is money and there are enough resources. They just need the right people/planners to get the resources to the right place without money getting in the way.

What they fail to realise is that by taking away money individuals have no individual choice or say in what they want or get. They have to do what they are told and get what they are given. For the greater good.

[Katman]

....I completely eviscerated his uneducated naivity.....

[mashman]

I would class Jacque Fresco as one of the nutjobs. A well meaning nutjob. But still a nutjob. The bottom line for these guys is that they consider the problem is money and there are enough resources. They just need the right people/planners to get the resources to the right place without money getting in the way.

What they fail to realise is that by taking away money individuals have no individual choice or say in what they want or get. They have to do what they are told and get what they are given. For the greater good.

How does taking money away remove individual choice? In RBE everyone is a volunteer. They do what they like.



The greater good is just a side effect of things being better under RBE. It's not a design feature.

So. Tell me again about what you know in regards to what RBE is?

[mashman]

must spread etc...

Interesting representation of a bogan thought. I get, Rote Learned.

[TheDemonLord]

I would class Jacque Fresco as one of the nutjobs. A well meaning nutjob. But still a nutjob. The bottom line for these guys is that they consider the problem is money and there are enough resources. They just need the right people/planners to get the resources to the right place without money getting in the way.

What they fail to realise is that by taking away money individuals have no individual choice or say in what they want or get. They have to do what they are told and get what they are given. For the greater good.

Money is more a symptom of the problem, I personally think an RBE, with the right technology would be viable and preferable - but you would need something Star Trek's Replicator technology in order to make it work. There might still be some need for a monetary or meritocracy based system to govern resources that cannot be replicated (such as Land etc.) but that would still be a better place than where we are currently.

However whilst there is a cost of oppertunity for any given resource, an RBE is doomed to fail and end up in a totalitarian dictatorship that will end up resembling communism.

[bogan]

When did we talk about it?... and I'll happily wear loon if the alternative is some other label that you guys wear.

See, when someone says to me, 'but you don't understand', I generally accept that I don't. I thought that's how things worked. I guess not.

Hey bogan, perhaps you can spare me some of the pain of my life and tell me, how am I going to feel tomorrow and what am I going to be wrong about? forewarned is forearmed like.

Was a while back now, you got confused by the concept of inflation, ownership, voting, etc...

When someone says to me, I'd like to discuss these ideas some more, I do. That's how shared understanding works.

Nah, you wouldn't understand anyway

I would class Jacque Fresco as one of the nutjobs. A well meaning nutjob. But still a nutjob. The bottom line for these guys is that they consider the problem is money and there are enough resources. They just need the right people/planners to get the resources to the right place without money getting in the way.

What they fail to realise is that by taking away money individuals have no individual choice or say in what they want or get. They have to do what they are told and get what they are given. For the greater good.

I do not think that description fits Fresco so well, perhaps it once did, but his leanings towards a voluntary technocracy with TVP suggest he is aware of those problems. It's the difference between forced removal of money and ladas for everyone, and simply having enough cash to share your ferrari...

[Ocean1]

I do not think that description fits Fresco so well, perhaps it once did, but his leanings towards a voluntary technocracy with TVP suggest he is aware of those problems. It's the difference between forced removal of money and ladas for everyone, and simply having enough cash to share your ferrari...

Yep, pretty much. But the cargo cult adherents look at anyone with enough cash to be able to share as undeserving rich pricks, and they insist that they deserve every bit as much without the charity bit.

Quite where they get this notion is anyone's guess, but I'm pickin it's 'cause any meritocratic system leaves them embarrassingly exposed as having produced nothing anyone else much wants.

[mashman]

Was a while back now, you got confused by the concept of inflation, ownership, voting, etc...

When someone says to me, I'd like to discuss these ideas some more, I do. That's how shared understanding works.

Nah, you wouldn't understand anyway

So we didn't actually talk about it? You read what I'd typed and decided..... Lervely.

[mashman]

Yep, pretty much. But the cargo cult adherents look at anyone with enough cash to be able to share as undeserving rich pricks, and they insist that they deserve every bit as much without the charity bit.

Quite where they get this notion is anyone's guess, but I'm pickin it's 'cause any meritocratic system leaves them embarrassingly exposed as having produced nothing anyone else much wants.

Meritocracy. A game of division for children. "Look at me, look at me, I'm much more awesome than someone else coz my thing is nicer than theirs and my mates say so, so cough up, give me more than them" .

You son, are a child.