The 2017 Election Thread

[Ocean1]

where they and their cohorts were not. Remember on seperate occasions tapsil and burke were made speakers of the house so they could have a majorty.

They and their cohorts weren't the highest polling group?

[Ocean1]

As compared to when I first voted in the first past the post era, much, much more information is available to the voter now. Even if it's unlikely that their favoured party is going to get a majority, they will be well aware of what potential partners are available.
I don't consider MMP a travesty, more than one general election in the FPP days became at least something resembling a travesty.
I consider the wider range of choices available now to be a good thing as it should at least get more out to vote...

I didn't suggest MMP was a travesty.

But any proposed govt that doesn't closely resemble that which most people voted for, no matter how it's contrived most certainly is.

[husaberg]

They and their cohorts weren't the highest polling group?

How many people do you think voted NZ first in the mid nineties expecting a National/NZ first goverment.
Peters had at that stage positioned and reinvented himself himself well left of center hence why they won the Maori seats.
There was a lot of anger at that time and a considerable voter backlsh against him and what was left of his party at the next election.

If they had a mandate and majority they would not have needed to appoint two labour MP's as speaker of the house on seperate occasions now would they.

[Ocean1]

How many people do you think voted NZ first in the mid nineties expecting a National/NZ first goverment.
Peters had at that stage positioned and reinvented himself himself well left of center hence why they won the Maori seats.
There was a lot of anger at that time and a considerable voter backlsh against him and what was left of his party at the next election.

If they had a mandate and majority they would not have needed to appoint two labour MP's as speaker of the house on seperate occasions now would they.

You're sort of making my point for me, dude.

Given me druthers I'd require every party to propose a proforma budget 3 months pre election. Web based voting. Failure to gain 51% initiates a second round a week later, with optional budget tweaks. Repeat until some party or pre-defined collection of parties obtains 51% mandate to govern.

[Oakie]

You're sort of making my point for me, dude.

Given me druthers I'd require every party to propose a proforma budget 3 months pre election. Web based voting. Failure to gain 51% initiates a second round a week later, with optional budget tweaks. Repeat until some party or pre-defined collection of parties obtains 51% mandate to govern.

Then you'd just get real vote buying with unrealistic budgets designed to appeal to individual voter greed.

[george formby]

I'm not a political beast and have only scanned the last few pages of this thread. I feel politics is a race to the middle.

But. In recent months a political individual has caught my attention, the new Labour Deputy leader, Kelvin Davis. Through my job I have had the pleasure of him consistently attending events to show support for our small tertiary school.
Not just a smile or a quick hand slap, but participating with a small group of students, parents and tutors at 5:30am for our Powhiri.
He has attended all of our events respectfully and humbly. I've seen no hint of self promotion or political branding.
The man genuinely gives a damn.
Based on nothing more than this community involvement at a very grass roots level I'm keen to talk to him personally about Labour policies for the country and his perceived goals.

I'm not political because I automatically distrust politicians due to a lifetime of political media portrayals. So it's heartening to see someone who has an interest in improving our country being part of our humble communities.

Nobody else with public political party connections in the region has shown up so consistently or showed as much interest.

As with everything going on in the world now. We live in interesting times.

[Ocean1]

Then you'd just get real vote buying with unrealistic budgets designed to appeal to individual voter greed.

As opposed to what? Collective voter greed?

Is there degrees of greed? Should you have to contribute to the pot in order to vote?

And you can fix the unrealistic budget bit by tying tenure to performance, y'know like any normal professional outfit expects. Blowing any budget allocation by more than 2% triggers another election.

[Ocean1]

I'm not a political beast and have only scanned the last few pages of this thread. I feel politics is a race to the middle.

But. In recent months a political individual has caught my attention, the new Labour Deputy leader, Kelvin Davis. Through my job I have had the pleasure of him consistently attending events to show support for our small tertiary school.
Not just a smile or a quick hand slap, but participating with a small group of students, parents and tutors at 5:30am for our Powhiri.
He has attended all of our events respectfully and humbly. I've seen no hint of self promotion or political branding.
The man genuinely gives a damn.
Based on nothing more than this community involvement at a very grass roots level I'm keen to talk to him personally about Labour policies for the country and his perceived goals.

I'm not political because I automatically distrust politicians due to a lifetime of political media portrayals. So it's heartening to see someone who has an interest in improving our country being part of our humble communities.

Nobody else with public political party connections in the region has shown up so consistently or showed as much interest.

As with everything going on in the world now. We live in interesting times.

Now take that observation to it's logical conclusion.

I've met quite a few politicians over the years, from across most of at least the middle reaches of the spectrum. And almost to a man/woman they match your observations wrt genuine, give a damn etc.

Isn't it likely, then that those media portrayals are the cause of your distrust?

[Oakie]

But. In recent months a political individual has caught my attention, the new Labour Deputy leader, Kelvin Davis.

I'm not a Labour supporter but he does impress me too. He does seem genuine about what he says. I would have actually had him in the top spot.

I've met quite a few politicians over the years, from across most of at least the middle reaches of the spectrum. And almost to a man/woman they match your observations wrt genuine, give a damn etc. Isn't it likely, then that those media portrayals are the cause of your distrust?

Good observation. I'm pretty sure that most politicians do get into it for the right reasons and do want to make a difference.

[Voltaire]

I'm not a Labour supporter but he does impress me too. He does seem genuine about what he says. I would have actually had him in the top spot.

Good observation. I'm pretty sure that most politicians do get into it for the right reasons and do want to make a difference.

Rodney " Perk Buster" Hyde jumps to mind.....but the gravy trains call was too much.



Does it only apply to NZ as in the US it now appears to be business motivated.

[Swoop]

... dependent on minority parties agreeing to work with the highest polling party.

The problem here is that it has no relation to merely working with another party.
It appears more like a hostage situation.
The smaller party makes huge demands. The larger of the parties has to make concessions which affect their position/direction.

[oldrider]

The problem here is that it has no relation to merely working with another party.
It appears more like a hostage situation.
The smaller party makes huge demands. The larger of the parties has to make concessions which affect their position/direction.

It creates compromise which generally means everything gets watered down to a lesser effective level.

They (Christians probably?) used to say that to compromise was like dealing with the devil.

[Ocean1]

The problem here is that it has no relation to merely working with another party.
It appears more like a hostage situation.
The smaller party makes huge demands. The larger of the parties has to make concessions which affect their position/direction.

Seems a deal requiring only a few % from one of several possible partners doesn't fuck with the shape of what's actually been voted on much. There's been a couple of instances where the likes of mate Winnie has done some damage to the political landscape though.

But the prospect of a Labour/Greens/NZ1st/United/Internet party/Mana/TOP/Maori party conglomerate is severely unattractive.

[Ocean1]

Rodney " Perk Buster" Hyde jumps to mind.....but the gravy trains call was too much.

I did say "most" of the politicians I've meet impressed me as genuine.

Rodney, Winstone and Bob were somewhat disappointing.

[OddDuck]

... But the prospect of a Labour/Greens/NZ1st/United/Internet party/Mana/TOP/Maori party conglomerate is severely unattractive.

It'd look like an octopus orgy.