The 2017 Election Thread

[Graystone]

No buts about it Auckilnd roads are the most expensive per KM to build and maintain.

the money from the rural roads where the road user charges are being generated are having the levy money from both the fuel level and the RUC are having money siphoned off to go to Auckland so they can enjoy cheap petrol prices and not have to pay for they own roads repairs maintence and new builds..

That makes sense though, as surely they have the highest traffic density, and thus the highest amount of Tax and RUC generated per KM as well.

In any case, surely it is as much a disincentive to drive everywhere, as it is a fund-raising measure, they could gain roading funding the same was as any other regional council if it were purely about the funds.

[mada]

Toll the shit out of the motorways during peak hour traffic too. Put the money into better public transport.

Hopefully it might now be a goer given the previous Govt. was only too happy to sit on its hands and do nothing for new ideas until it came time to try and get votes.

Helen's Tunnel has been good for re-directing traffic but the significant problem IMO is that most Public Transport involves some trip around or near the CBD.

Need direct rail from West to South.

Would love to see Whenuapai turned into Commercial Airport too.

[pritch]

But...
...so there's many more kilometres of roads in rural areas than in urban areas, but many more people in urban areas than rural (particularly Auckland). That suggests it's the other way around doesn't it? .

No. The whole country had an additional tax added to the price of petrol to finance Auckland's roading. That has already been mentioned in this thread, try and keep up.

[nerrrd]

No. The whole country had an additional tax added to the price of petrol to finance Auckland's roading. That has already been mentioned in this thread, try and keep up.

Yeah but the government fixes the amount of tax paid in petrol to keep up the roads. Everybody (including Aucklanders) contributes to that taxation. For the whole country. Sure everybody is now paying an extra 5c on top of what is already being contributed (for the whole country) but that 5c is earmarked for Auckland alone. It doesn't mean that all the tax paid from petrol is only being used in Auckland, does it?? Otherwise you guys really would have shitty roads. By which I mean all Aucklanders are already 'subsidising' everybody else's roads by paying the existing tax, it's just how putting it all into a kitty works.

And the extra 10c is a regional tax only to be paid in Auckland. If you're complaining that we're complaining about another 10c on top because we don't deserve the cheap petrol we already have in Auckland compared to elsewhere, take it up with the fuel companies, they're the ones fixing the prices (they don't get to change the amount of tax being collected).

Maybe if I put it this way: the individual citizens of Auckland must be collectively already contributing by far the largest amount of tax from petrol (RUCs aside) to the kitty than all the other 'cities' put together, it's a straight numbers game. It's up to the government to dish it out as they see fit once they've collected it. I believe there have been a couple of major road projects in Wellington and Christchurch as well which we've all had to pay for, or 'subsidise' if you want to put it that way.

We (I) don't get a say in the matter, its all worked out in Wellington, yet you blame 'Aucklanders'. Waah it's not fair. So there.

[FJRider]

By which I mean all Aucklanders are already 'subsidising' everybody else's roads by paying the existing tax, it's just how putting it all into a kitty works.

If you're complaining that we're complaining about another 10c on top because we don't deserve the cheap petrol we already have in Auckland compared to elsewhere, take it up with the fuel companies, they're the ones fixing the prices (they don't get to change the amount of tax being collected).

Maybe if I put it this way: the individual citizens of Auckland must be collectively already contributing by far the largest amount of tax from petrol (RUCs aside) to the kitty than all the other 'cities' put together

Your ideas ...

1. Aucklander's subsidize EVERYBODY else with the existing tax.

2. Aucklander's don't deserve the cheap petrol you already have in Auckland.

3. Auckland must already contribute the largest amount of tax from petrol.



Auckland roads have already received the bulk of the national road funding for many years.

The cheap fuel means per head of population ... you pay less for petrol than elsewhere.

A third of the population lives in (or near) Auckland ... and yet you claim Auckland contributes the largest amount of tax from your cheap petrol ... ???



I don't think maths is your strong-point ...

[husaberg]

Yeah but the government fixes the amount of tax paid in petrol to keep up the roads. Everybody (including Aucklanders) contributes to that taxation. For the whole country. Sure everybody is now paying an extra 5c on top of what is already being contributed (for the whole country) but that 5c is earmarked for Auckland alone. It doesn't mean that all the tax paid from petrol is only being used in Auckland, does it?? Otherwise you guys really would have shitty roads. By which I mean all Aucklanders are already 'subsidising' everybody else's roads by paying the existing tax, it's just how putting it all into a kitty works.

And the extra 10c is a regional tax only to be paid in Auckland. If you're complaining that we're complaining about another 10c on top because we don't deserve the cheap petrol we already have in Auckland compared to elsewhere, take it up with the fuel companies, they're the ones fixing the prices (they don't get to change the amount of tax being collected).

Maybe if I put it this way: the individual citizens of Auckland must be collectively already contributing by far the largest amount of tax from petrol (RUCs aside) to the kitty than all the other 'cities' put together, it's a straight numbers game. It's up to the government to dish it out as they see fit once they've collected it. I believe there have been a couple of major road projects in Wellington and Christchurch as well which we've all had to pay for, or 'subsidise' if you want to put it that way.

We (I) don't get a say in the matter, its all worked out in Wellington, yet you blame 'Aucklanders'. Waah it's not fair. So there.

As you are a bit slow on the uptake here is it in a nutshell the money that is being generated on rural roads from fuel levies and RUC charges that should be going to maintain these roads is now being used to fund roads in Auckland.
This money is not generated in anyway shape or form from vehicles running and damaging Auckland roads.
Labour intends to fix this, user pays.................. National siphoned money to try and fix fix Aucklnders stupidity. which is of course pointless.

That makes sense though, as surely they have the highest traffic density, and thus the highest amount of Tax and RUC generated per KM as well.

In any case, surely it is as much a disincentive to drive everywhere, as it is a fund-raising measure, they could gain roading funding the same was as any other regional council if it were purely about the funds.

If that was true why do they need money that rightfuly belongs to the regions?
the RUC and fuel levies were tradionally split between the goverment for the highway maintence and the local areas for local road road maintence. National took money from the regions share to give it to mainly Auckland.
the biggest damagers of roads are not lots of cars they are heavy vehicles.

[nerrrd]

Your ideas ...

1. Aucklander's subsidize EVERYBODY else with the existing tax.

2. Aucklander's don't deserve the cheap petrol you already have in Auckland.

3. Auckland must already contribute the largest amount of tax from petrol.

You're right, it's not.

However I only said the citizens of Auckland contribute more than the citizens of all the other 'cities' in New Zealand - I think that's Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Hamilton and maybe Tauranga? Given we're nearly four times bigger than the next biggest (Christchurch) I figured that was a safe bet. As an individual citizen, I can only contribute via taxes/levies/income tax. I haven't got a clue (there that should be fun for you to quote) on the commercial side of things.

Maybe we don't, but as I said that's up to the fuel companies.

See first point above, the citizens of Auckland must collectively contribute more. We spend longer in our cars than anybody else does (you know, going to cafes and such) and we have by far the most cars on the road. Again, as individuals, not including businesses (but there are a fair number of those in Auckland too).

This is fun.

[Ocean1]

https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2...land-too-much/

[nerrrd]

Here's the breakdown of taxes on fuel.

http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-service...in-new-zealand

Presumably it's the National Land Transport Fund that we're all contributing to. Also I don't see a category for "Tax just for bloody Aucklanders so they can bleed the rest of the country dry..."

[FJRider]

You're right, it's not.

We've noticed ...

This is fun.

The points you're missing ...

ALL the tax from fuel sales go into the same Government account. They dont care where the most come from. You buy fuel ... you pay tax.

Tax paid with fuel costs may not be the same in each area. Fuel sold at all outlets are usually based on volume of fuel sold. The less sold ... the more you pay at the pumps.

Auckland's traffic problems are caused by Auckland's drivers.

If a large portion of the population cause a problem ... Shouldn't they pay the larger portion to fix it ... ??

[FJRider]

... Also I don't see a category for "Tax just for bloody Aucklanders so they can bleed the rest of the country dry..."

It's inclusive ...

[husaberg]

Here's the breakdown of taxes on fuel.

http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-service...in-new-zealand

Presumably it's the National Land Transport Fund that we're all contributing to. Also I don't see a category for "Tax just for bloody Aucklanders so they can bleed the rest of the country dry..."

The RUc and a proprtion of the Fuel levies is meant to go to the regions, they are the ones being bled dry, the regions pay for their own roads you tosser.

Between 2002 and 2003, however, overall funding by Transfund was increased by $150.9m (+15.9%). Half of the regions received an increase in funding, while the remaining half experienced reduced funding. The largest increase in funding by region was for Auckland region, which was increased by 65.6% to $312.3m. This has raised Auckland’s funding as a proportion of total Transfund funding from an average of 20.5% over 1999-2002 to 28.4% in 2003.

A Government policy priority for land transport is to relieve severe traffic congestion.5 This has resulted in a greater allocation of funds to the Auckland region, especially for construction of state highways. Between 2002 and 2003, funding for the improvement and replacement of state highways within the Auckland region was raised by $76.04m (138%), thereby accounting for 61.5% of the total increase in land transport funding allocated by Transfund to the region. In contrast, most other regions had substantial reductions in funding allocations for state highway construction over the same period

[Brian d marge]

Don't fund the country side ...get em in high density stack and pack cities ...
It's the only way

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Graystone]

If that was true why do they need money that rightfuly belongs to the regions?
the RUC and fuel levies were tradionally split between the goverment for the highway maintence and the local areas for local road road maintence. National took money from the regions share to give it to mainly Auckland.
the biggest damagers of roads are not lots of cars they are heavy vehicles.

How does it rightfully belong to other regions? By tradition?

Anyway, I was referring to the proposed auckland regional fuel tax, the region could get the funds through other regional sources like the rest of the country has to, taxing fuel directly merely offers a disincentive to use the road, thus reducing the funding required in the first place. It seems pretty clever to me.

[husaberg]

How does it rightfully belong to other regions? By tradition?

Anyway, I was referring to the proposed auckland regional fuel tax, the region could get the funds through other regional sources like the rest of the country has to, taxing fuel directly merely offers a disincentive to use the road, thus reducing the funding required in the first place. It seems pretty clever to me.

It belongs to the regions where it was generated because it was generated damaging the roads of that region.
National put through a law change to rip off the regions to give it to parasitic tossers in Auckland who can't pay their on way or understand why they should have to.