Thinking of getting vaccinated?

[Graystone]

Well it certainly seemed that you were misinformed about the trial process for childhood vaccines.

I'm pleased to see you're better educated today.

Sometimes, things are not as they seem Attention and knowledge will help you find the truth!

[TheDemonLord]

It's a shame they don't have the same standards of hygiene and nutrition.

Then you might be able to draw some sort of valid comparison.

Oh, you mean like Japan? Where they stopped the MMR vaccine and had hundreds of Deaths due to multiple Measles outbreaks, whereas the UK during the same time period had none?

Like that valid comparison?

[Katman]

Oh, you mean like Japan? Where they stopped the MMR vaccine and had hundreds of Deaths due to multiple Measles outbreaks, whereas the UK during the same time period had none?

Like that valid comparison?

In 2000 Japan had an estimated 200,000 cases of measles. They had 88 deaths.

That's a 0.044% rate of deaths for those infected.

The population of Japan at the time would have been at least 120 million.

I'll leave you to work out the deaths per capita.

[husaberg]

In 2000 Japan had an estimated 200,000 cases of measles. They had 88 deaths.

That's a 0.044% rate of deaths for those infected.

The population of Japan at the time would have been at least 120 million.

I'll leave you to work out the deaths per capita.

Well lets see

The MMR scare caused a low percentage of mumps vaccination (less than 30%), In the same time period UK vs Japan.
There were up to 2002 measles-caused deaths in Japan while there were none in the UK

So how many of these what you deem insignificant deaths are easily preventable deaths of children.
Note the majority of children were still vaccinated for measles only it was 70% rather than near 100% they were also vaccinated at a later age.


Another interesting part of willingness to downplay these preventable deaths as being insignificant statistics.
This is not consistent with how you treat the possible deaths of a couple of children in Afghanistan in a war zone as being a NZ war crime yet the deaths of children due to Wakefeilds false trial as being so insignificant. This smacks of utter hypocrisy.

So if you are happy to use those Japanese figures, you will be happy to then accept these same figures used out of Japan prove that when the MMR vaccine was stopped the rates of Autism rose.
Yet you have clearly stated that you believe the combination vaccine causes autism, Thus maybe you need to explain why the Japanese figures that you are so happy to use above actually disprove your theory rather nicely.

With his colleagues Yasuo Shimizu and Michael Rutter of the Institute of Psychiatry in London, UK, Honda looked at the records of 31,426 children born in one district of Yokohama between 1988 and 1996. The team counted children diagnosed as autistic by the age of 7.
They found the cases continued to multiply after the vaccine withdrawal, ranging from 48 to 86 cases per 10,000 children before withdrawal to 97 to 161 per 10,000 afterwards. The same pattern was seen with a particular form of autism in which children appear to develop normally and then suddenly regress – the form linked to MMR by Wakefield.
The study cannot rule out the possibility that MMR triggers autism in a tiny number of children, as some claim, but it does show there is no large-scale effect. The vaccine “cannot have caused autism in the many children with autism spectrum disorders in Japan who were born and grew up in the era when MMR was not available”, Honda concludes.

[TheDemonLord]

Well lets see

So how many of these what you deem insignificant deaths are easily preventable deaths of children.
Note the majority of children were still vaccinated for measles only it was 70% rather than near 100% they were also vaccinated at a later age solely due to Andrew Wakefeild derived concerns.

Another interesting part of willingness to downplay these preventable deaths as being insignificant statistics.
This is not consistent with how you treat the possible deaths of a couple of children in Afghanistan in a war zone as being a NZ war crime yet the deaths of children due to Wakefeilds false trial as being so insignificant. This smacks of utter hypocrisy.

So if you are happy to use those Japanese figures, you will be happy to then accept these same figures used out of Japan prove that when the MMR vaccine was stopped the rates of Autism rose.
Yet you have clearly stated that you believe the combination vaccine causes autism, Thus maybe you need to explain why the Japanese figures that you are so happy to use above actually disprove your theory rather nicely.

As a point of correction - Japan's withdrawal of the MMR vaccine had nothing to do with Andrew Wakefield - they used a different strain of the Mumps virus for their Vaccine (The Urabe strain) which in something like 1 in 10,000 vaccinations caused aseptic meningitis (for comparison, getting the full blown virus has a rate of something like 1 in 1000). No one died from it, and I don't believe there were any cases of long-lasting side effects.

The main point however - that 2000 deaths vs 0 deaths - that's as close as you are going to get to a Double Blind test, 2 first world nations with world class health care.

And for the bonus point - depending on which metric you use - Japan also has the highest (or second highest) rate of Autism in the world. Which flies directly in the face of your theory - if it had ANY shred of truth to it, we would expect to see a decline or dip in Autism rates.

[TheDemonLord]

In 2000 Japan had an estimated 200,000 cases of measles. They had 88 deaths.

That's a 0.044% rate of deaths for those infected.

The population of Japan at the time would have been at least 120 million.

I'll leave you to work out the deaths per capita.

88 deaths in 1 year, vs 0 in the US, the UK, France, Germany etc. etc.

Do you see the difference - stop trying to use stats to muddy the waters - it's not a comparison per capita that matters, it's a comparison to it's Peers - which all had ZERO deaths.

[husaberg]

As a point of correction - Japan's withdrawal of the MMR vaccine had nothing to do with Andrew Wakefield - they used a different strain of the Mumps virus for their Vaccine (The Urabe strain) which in something like 1 in 10,000 vaccinations caused aseptic meningitis (for comparison, getting the full blown virus has a rate of something like 1 in 1000). No one died from it, and I don't believe there were any cases of long-lasting side effects.

Right you are although i think there were some deaths also some of the vaccine that was used had expired and was poorly made.

Official figures show there were three deaths while eight children were left with permanent handicaps ranging from damaged hearing and blindness to loss of control of limbs.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...#ixzz5Dd8ZyEzT

[Woodman]

I sense a katman dummy spit.............

[husaberg]

I sense a katman dummy spit.............

All evidence suggests he is a swallower

[Katman]

Yet you have clearly stated that you believe the combination vaccine causes autism

If you really believe I have ever said that then I challenge you to quote one post of mine which shows me saying it.

The fact is that I don't know for certain whether it does or not.

All I have ever said is that there appears to be evidence that suggests there may well be a connection between vaccines and neurological disorders and that a) there needs to be far more testing done, b) a degree of caution should be exercised in the manner in which vaccines are administered and c) that if there is any question that any ingredients in vaccines are actually doing harm then we need to demand safer vaccines.

[husaberg]

If you really believe I have ever said that then I challenge you to quote one post of mine which shows me saying it.
The fact is that I don't know for certain whether it does or not..

Yeah Stevo that's the issue here rather than you not being able to provide a credible link that backs up your assertions of a link between autism and vaccination.
So now you claim to understand the question just where are the credable papers providing proof of a link?
#I note you edit every single one of my posts.

They've been posted previously in this thread.
Fuck off and re-read them.

Perhaps it's time that you just accept there is plenty of evidence that supports the questioning of vaccine safety and efficacy.

I'm forever amazed by the number of fuckwits who will happily crow that "autism has nothing to do with vaccines, it's a genetic issue" - all the while steadfastly refusing to consider the possibility that some people may have a genetic predisposition that prevents their body expelling the toxins contained in vaccines in the normal manner.

The condition called autism has been known for about 100 years.
The increase in numbers of diagnosed cases since the 70's is not down to an increase in 'awareness'.

There's countless doctors who will confirm that there's no link between immunisation and autism. Are you saying they're lying?

Are they basing their confirmation on their own research or just voicing their opinion based on what they've been told?
'Cos I'm pretty sure you'll find that Dr. William Thompson's claim is based on what he saw with his very own eyes.

All I have ever said is that there appears to be evidence that suggests there may well be a connection between vaccines and neurological disorders and that a) there needs to be far more testing done, b) a degree of caution should be exercised in the manner in which vaccines are administered and c) that if there is any question that any ingredients in vaccines are actually doing harm then we need to demand safer vaccines.

Show us all the evidence that suggests there may well be a connection between vaccines and neurological disorders then.
Because as we have pointed out to you all the evidence suggests the exact opposite.....

So lets see what you are saying now today in your Wednesday version is you don't know if you actually believe the evidence that you claim proves vaccination causes Autism that you claim was posted as evidence.....
This evidence that you have said exists and has been posted on this thread, but you wont now post it for us all to see, in spite of repeated requests.

[Katman]

So lets see what you are saying is you don't know if you believe the evidence that you claim proves vaccination causes Autism that you claim was posted as evidence.....

I've never claimed that any of the studies I've linked "proves vaccination causes Autism".

They raise plenty of questions though.

[husaberg]

I've never claimed that any of the studies I've linked "proves vaccination causes Autism".

They raise plenty of questions though.

No the only questions raised are regarding your intelligence and integrity and general gullibility regarding any conspiracy theory.

Yeah Stevo that's the issue here rather than you not being able to provide a credible link that backs up your assertions of a link between autism and vaccination.
So now you claim to understand the question just where are the credible papers providing proof of a link?
#I note you edit every single one of my posts.

They've been posted previously in this thread.
Fuck off and re-read them.

The credible links have been scientific studies.
Fuck off and re-read them.

You were asked for credible links as per normal you came up short.
Could it be your reticence to post what you have claimed is "scientific studies that provide a credible links" is because that you don't believe anything you have posted is credible at all.......

The condition called autism has been known for about 100 years.
The increase in numbers of diagnosed cases since the 70's is not down to an increase in 'awareness'.

So what are the increase numbers down to then stevo....

[Katman]

So what are the increase numbers down to then stevo....

I suspect it's a genetic issue in some people that results in toxin retention and the progression of those toxins into the brain.

But that's just my suspicion.

[Katman]

Remember how they Chemically Castrated Children?

Speaking of which.....

https://file.scirp.org/pdf/OALibJ_2018011811381800.pdf