ESE's works engine tuner

[husaberg]

Interesting difference between RGV 500 70 and 80 degree engines.
On 70, W- reeds is partly masked the way to C on one pair of cylinders.
The last RGV, with 80 degree engine was symmetrical - free way to C on all 4. cylinders.
As I understand correctly, first time they tried W-type reed block was around 1990 on RGV 250 racer.

About rounded piston - tried it on my RGV 250 ( left sharp edge at C) and still walking with feelings that left after tests - front wheel hanging in 4 gear.

Where did you get the drawings i have never seen those?
Yamaha went backwards and forwards heaps of times with the V angle.
On a lot of occasions it was to do with room for airbox and change with the acceptable design compromise between power and chassis design

[katinas]

Wob, this RGV engine (VJ22) was assembled 5 years ago and I rarely used it, because, ironically, concentrated on less powerful NS engine.
So I almost forget what I done on this RGV engine and before testing radiused pistons I found this:
No gasket between cylinders and block, heads original with angled sparkplug was modified - 0,7mm squash, vol 13cc., piston original flat top skimmed.
At TDC, piston top equal with cylinder top.
At BDC, piston top 0,8 mm higher than transfers lower edge, so just made 1.3mm radi on pistons with sharp edge at C location. No other modification.
So C timing left as before ( 0,8mm less than std.), just EX with A,B opens earlier but now nearly like std must be. Not measure timing, but now have electronic gauge that you recommended. Very nice thing.

And yes playing with unradiused C timing its important, so need more time, but generally very interesting at which timing "radiused" starts to overcome "sharp" power or how differs timing between "radiused" and "sharp" with equal max power.
And if "radiused" help generate more flow, then maybe bigger head volume needed.

After 3 rounds of MX 65 championships in NE zone boy left in 2nd place with radiused piston ( last round with sharp edge at C and matched head). So he have opportunity to participate in final race after 3 weeks in Czech Republic with all quickest boys from Europe. Frits, thanks again.

[katinas]

Where did you get the drawings i have never seen those?
Yamaha went backwards and forwards heaps of times with the V angle.
On a lot of occasions it was to do with room for airbox and change with the acceptable design compromise between power and chassis design

From RACERS vol.32. Other interesting thing from drawings is about EX configuration: looks like one big EX with satellites ,but maybe two big with sat. like on VJ23.
And 3 stages power valve.

Mat Oxley
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/o...r-knew-existed
“Maybe 50 years from now…”

[husaberg]

From RACERS vol.32. Other interesting thing from drawings is about EX configuration: looks like one big EX with satellites ,but maybe two big with sat. like on VJ23.

I have yet to see a v23 port map. i looked the other day.
Suzuki and yam works bike had single and two aux EX ports back to the early 80's maybe before then they went away from them Who knows why.
Is racers a Magazine?

Wob actually made inquires about one about 4 years ago as he had herd they were a bridged twin ex port one with 2 auxs.

Edit 6 years ago

Have just found out that the Suzuki VJ23 cylinder is a T port ( like the older models and also Aprilia RS250) but it has sub ports as well.
This may be an even better choice for sitting on a RG bottom end and sleeving to 50mm.
Anyone got one I can look at.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah that's right. A mate has one (currently in his kitchen, no room in lounge for RZ500). Forgot to take a pic bit bridged with 2 aux. Odd. Also barrel seated twisted in relationship to crank a little.

[Flettner]

Ok, Rob, time to abandon that ecotrons bull shit.

Link is an NZ based company that has been in the EFI business for years. Their tech guys are readily available (during business hours) and very knowledgeable. I use the link ECU and without their input I would not have been able to bring the YZ 250 TPI to success. Yes their units are expensive but in my opinion well worth the outlay, if nothing else in terms of help over the phone.
I also use a company call EFI NZ, will sell you any thing EFI sensors, injectors etc, all good quality stuff. I just bought a tiny nippon denso fuel pump, ethanol capable as an example.
And I use a guy in Tauranga, Dave, at DTECH. Knows the Link ECU inside out, but not for free. He is helping me with my 360 mark two TPI.
Don't battle with people (ecotrons) that are only intetested in money and don't want to help.

[TZ350]

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Hi Flettner, thanks for that, it is very tempting.



Because it has been another frustrating few days banging my head trying to get some simple help from the Ecotrons support team.

All I want is for the VE table in my EFI software to be turned on, how hard can that be.

I have no doubt these Ecotrons guys are really really smart pointy heads when building EFI systems but are so totally inept and completely shit to deal with when it comes to simple support for their product.

I am not looking for them to solve my tuning issues. I just need them to flick the secret switch that allows my CPU to run both Alpa-N and VE volumetric efficiency maps. The software is there, it is just a switch flick that is a normal part of other brands of EFI software.

I have posted my 2T EFI adventures and persevered with Ecotrons because it is easily affordable for myself and anyone else who might like to experiment with 2T EFI too.

But as much as I like Ecotrons hardware I am seriously looking to kick Ecotrons to touch because their poor support makes it so hard to work with.

And today following Flettners suggestion I had a chat with the Link support team, great bunch of enthusiastic guys. Easy to talk with and very helpful.

The quality of Link's support team is making a Link G4+ look very attractive.

I put a proposal to Ecotrons and will wait a few days to see their response, if its not helpful I will be binning their system which is pretty useless without cooperative help for the simple but important things.

[katinas]

Yeah that's right. A mate has one (currently in his kitchen, no room in lounge for RZ500). Forgot to take a pic bit bridged with 2 aux. Odd. Also barrel seated twisted in relationship to crank a little.

Kawasaki used it on KX 125 in 1986. VJ23 aux looks modest, but maybe with bigger main EX.
Interesting staggered reed cage of RSW 250, partly to copy crank web.

[katinas]

Few days thinking about 2000 Estonian Tallin TT event, exactly 18 years ago.
We arrived late on friday at the end of fist 125/250 training. I was pushing my bike to tech inspection when they return from track and suddenly stopped in thinking where I see this helmet before. I turned and can't believed, it was Joey Dunlop.
On saturday he wining everything on four strokes, it was amazing how nice was his riding style.
On Sunday it was veterans race, some drizzle before start and doubts about tires. After first 2 laps Joey on RS 125 and Lembitt Tessalu ( add photo) on TZ 250 was in front. They always battle - after straights before corners, Tesallu was at the front, but after exit Joey see clear track. This always repeat at corner where I was standing.
All ended at very fast left hand on full gas before main straight with trees all around.
Still remember saturday evening, when Joey was siting in folding chair with some drink in hand and his eyes wandering somewhere between trees. Estonian TT was like old style GP, vans, tents, all riders together in the forest, amazing atmosphere.

My own race ended after warm up lap before race, when engine lost some power. At the morning training engine seized at fastest place on start finish line and I was very busy with restoring everything in time, at the same time trying to resolve cdi problems on mate RG 250 and simply forget to fill the water in to my NS 250 before race. So with 1:19 compression on 98 RON and without cooling, engine said enough after more than 6 km first warm up lap, but not seized.

Estonians and Latvians always be very clever about 2T and was fastest when we where isolated from all world in s... union. Estonians produce "Vihur "road racing motorcycles with CZ, Rotax and Yamaha engines and Latvians Riga mainly 50cc. But most racers deal with useless Iz, Minsk, Kovrov engines, they simply made miracles extracting impossible powers. So much energy to such bad engines. There was one class only for womens, with 175cc Kovrov 1 cylinder engine.
Most interesting was racers from Cuba. They arrived from airport to tracks with suitcases full of metal and assembled motorcycle in 1 hour or so, mainly with CZ cross engines adapted to road racing. It was amazing.

Add video Estonian Tallin TT 1958 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLLjkogKZxE
Track was used from 1933 until 2006 motorcycle race but was abandoned due to worsened road surface and lack of money to repair it.

[TZ350]

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Very interesting memories, thanks.

[katinas]

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Very interesting memories, thanks.

Just remember other man from Great Britain Michael Sutton on Honda RS 250 , he was very fast at Tallin TT, but after 2 laps his engine seized, and this repeated 2 or 3 times at this event on the same cylinder. After one year, when I meet him again and asked about this, he smiled and said that later found very small invisible crack on that cylinder head.

[TZ350]

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Such small things that conspire to defeat us...... .... the 60's, 70's and 80's to me are the golden era of motorcycle racing.

An era when a guy and a couple of mates could cobble something together in the shed and go racing and mix it with the best. A bit like F4 and F5 Buckets is here in New Zealand now. I know Buckets is a pale shadow, but for me it brings back the memories and has the same sort of feel as that golden era.

[TZ350]

Kawasaki used it on KX 125 in 1986.

I am not sure of the year but here are some more pictures of the Kawasaki KX125 auxiliary exhaust ports.

[TZ350]

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Shean Roberts and Hartog

[TZ350]

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Munro. Someone I had the good fortune to spend an afternoon chatting with at his shed in 1970.

Here are some clips that someone put together about him.