The firearm thread

[husaberg]

Easy to say when it's not you that's affected isn't it....

But more importantly - if the entire process was Fair and unbiased, it would be easier to stomach. However, it was clear from the outset that certain interest groups were using the Tragedy to further their Agenda and doing so at my expense.

And on that basis - Fuck 'em.

And none of it was looked at. The only thing that was looked at was 'Hurr Durr Ban Scary Black Gun'.

Listen sony the world doesn't revolve around you or your feelings or your wants.
Put on your big boy pants and grow up.

[TheDemonLord]

Listen sony the world doesn't revolve around you or your feelings or your wants.
Put on your big boy pants and grow up.

Again, Easy to say when it's not you being affected.

And interesting that you didn't address any of the points that would likely have had a far greater positive effect to Firearm safety in this Country.

It's almost like you don't care about Firearm safety, you only care about conforming to your ideological Tenants, just like your political Masters.

But don't worry, when it's something you like and care about up against the wall - I'll be right there, treating you with the same contempt you've shown.

[husaberg]

Again, Easy to say when it's not you being affected.

And interesting that you didn't address any of the points that would likely have had a far greater positive effect to Firearm safety in this Country.

It's almost like you don't care about Firearm safety, you only care about conforming to your ideological Tenants, just like your political Masters.

But don't worry, when it's something you like and care about up against the wall - I'll be right there, treating you with the same contempt you've shown.

I am showing you the contempt you deserve, everyone in NZ is affected by the law change not just you, The difference is 80% plus agree its the right thing to do or say it still doesn't go far enough.
Is it correct to say, You are a pom that immigrated to NZ?
Either way if you don't like NZ's or the UK laws, move to the USA. You already claim to know more than their supreme court Judges and the FBI do about law and security, Why not try and prove it in person.
Here in the real world rather than your online gamming 50 people died, if you want to front up to their relatives and tell them you value their lives lower than your want to have a rifle you never needed or even used for anything other than a hobby go for it.
PS none of the points you made are safer options than what has already occurred. Quite the opposite.

As for saying similar law changes in Aussie never worked, you are 100% mistaken
According to a Sydney University analysis, before the law change mass shootings took place at a rate of one every three years, with 13 massacres since 1979.
After Australia's Port Arthur massacre, ONLY Twelve days after the mass shooting in which 35 people were killed, prime minister John Howard took drastic measures. With the introduction of the National Firearms Agreement, gun control was massively tightened.
Funny enough since then There have been ZERO mass shootings in the two decades since 1996. ZERO Zilch NADA.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/chr...nt-new-zealand

[TheDemonLord]

I am showing you the contempt you deserve,

Thus Spake every Totalitarian Genocidal Dictator.

That, right there, is the same Justification that Stalin used, the same justification that Pol Pot used.

You've self-appointed yourself Judge, Jury and most importantly, Executioner.

The fact you don't see it, is truly terrifying. And here's the real kicker: That's exactly the same thinking the Terrorist had each and every time he pulled the trigger.

[husaberg]

Thus Spake every Totalitarian Genocidal Dictator.

That, right there, is the same Justification that Stalin used, the same justification that Pol Pot used.

You've self-appointed yourself Judge, Jury and most importantly, Executioner.

The fact you don't see it, is truly terrifying. And here's the real kicker: That's exactly the same thinking the Terrorist had each and every time he pulled the trigger.

A law change that over 80% of NZ agree with voted in by 99% of Our MP's and you have the audacity to claim its a akin to a dictatorship.
Nice one.

[jasonu]

A law change that over 80% of NZ agree with voted in by 99% of Our MP's and you have the audacity to claim its a akin to a dictatorship.
Nice one.

80% from a poll taken from people that likely have never heard of an AR15 before Brenton Tarrent did his thing. 99% of MP's that knew a vote against the new rules would be political suicide.

[Laava]

80% from a poll taken from people that likely have never heard of an AR15 before Brenton Tarrent did his thing. 99% of MP's that knew a vote against the new rules would be political suicide.

So, just while you are being the expert on statitics, oh and all guns obviously, are you inferring that pretty much everyone knows nothing about what an AR15 is or any military style semi? Or just 80%?

[jasonu]

So, just while you are being the expert on statitics, oh and all guns obviously, are you inferring that pretty much everyone knows nothing about what an AR15 is or any military style semi? Or just 80%?

Just the 80% of the few hundred people polled

[husaberg]

80% from a poll taken from people that likely have never heard of an AR15 before the idiot did his thing. 99% of MP's that knew a vote against the new rules would be political suicide.

Democracy is the will of the majority of the people no mater what their race education or religion
All those polled knew the CHCH terrorist used firearms inc AR15 to kill 50 people in the mater of minutes.
You just don't like the result of the poll. As it clearly shows how tiny the minority support for NZ's Gun lobby is.


but if you are going to suggest a certain level of intelligence or knowledge is required to vote Have a look closer to home.

55% of Americans believe that Christianity was written into the Constitution
Only 51% knew where New York was.
25% of Americans were unable to identify the country from which America gained its independence.
Only 20%, believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth
In 2011 29% of Americans were unable to correctly identify the current Vice President, Joe Biden
73% had no idea why the US fought the Cold War.
46.1% of Americans voted for Donald trump

[jasonu]

but if you are going to suggest a certain level of intelligence or knowledge is required to vote Have a look closer to home.

55% of Americans believe that Christianity was written into the Constitution
Only 51% knew where New York was.
25% of Americans were unable to identify the country from which America gained its independence.
Only 20%, believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth
In 2011 29% of Americans were unable to correctly identify the current Vice President, Joe Biden
73% had no idea why the US fought the Cold War.
46.1% of Americans voted for Donald trump

Have you been watching David Letterman?

[TheDemonLord]

A law change that over 80% of NZ agree with voted in by 99% of Our MP's and you have the audacity to claim its a akin to a dictatorship.
Nice one.

You keep using that 80% figure, when the submissions were a lot closer - 60-40. That's without filtering out the duplicate and 'form' submissions from those for the Law change.

However, there was a time when nearly 100% of people were in favor of Slavery - did it make it right then? Or are you just committing the populist Fallacy - that something is right because most people say it is.

[husaberg]

You keep using that 80% figure, when the submissions were a lot closer - 60-40. That's without filtering out the duplicate and 'form' submissions from those for the Law change.

However, there was a time when nearly 100% of people were in favor of Slavery - did it make it right then? Or are you just committing the populist Fallacy - that something is right because most people say it is.

Red hearing alert.... So what if the submissions were. 50/50 it would not change anything, Unless the submission said something useful.
We live in a democracy you claimed it was unfair as your views were not followed, tough.

Between April 6 and 10, 1009 eligible voters were polled via landline and mobile phone.
The maximum sampling error is approximately ±3.1%-points at the 95 per cent confidence level.
Sixty-one per cent thought the changes were about right, 19% thought it did not go far enough and 14% thought it went too far.
Five per cent didn't know, and 2% refused to answer.
This is the will of the majority of the people, Deal with it.
Out of all the Mps that represent the voters all bar one supported the bill.
You are a lunatic if you think you have being able to have a AR10 on a A class licence is comparable to slavery

[unstuck]

I refuse to answer. 🤘

[husaberg]

I refuse to answer. ��

Welcome back hippie
3 years

[TheDemonLord]

Red hearing alert.... So what if the submissions were. 50?50 it would not change anything, Unless the submission said something useful.

So, it's all "Democracy Democracy Democracy" - right up until the point where the Democratic process doesn't give you what you want, then it's "It would not change anything, nothing useful" - that shows everyone what your (lack of) principals are....

If the submissions were 51 -49 opposing the Bill - would it be Democracy if it was rejected? what about 60-40 against? 70-30? We both know that even if there was 100% opposition submissions this bill would have gone through and we both know that you would still claim that this is 'Democracy'.

We live in a democracy you claimed it was unfair as your views were not followed, tough.

That's not Democracy, that's Tyranny by the Majority. And I'll come back to this in a moment...

Between April 6 and 10, 1009 eligible voters were polled via landline and mobile phone.
The maximum sampling error is approximately ±3.1%-points at the 95 per cent confidence level.
Sixty-one per cent thought the changes were about right, 19% thought it did not go far enough and 14% thought it went too far.
Five per cent didn't know, and 2% refused to answer.
This is the will of the majority of the people, Deal with it.
Out of all the Mps that represent the voters all bar one supported the bill.

Where were they polled from? What was their level of Knowledge on the Subject? You only have to look at the Media talking heads as a case in point - one saying that she had no idea what the current Gun laws are, Another saying he was shocked to find out you can own Assault Rifles in NZ (You can't).

You are a lunatic if you think you have being able to have a AR10 on a A class licence is comparable to slavery

I never said that.

You've been saying that if the Majority say it's so, then it must be right.
I'm pointing out that all of Mankinds greatest egalitarian advances (Abolition of Slavery, Suffrage for Women, Gay Rights etc. etc.) have been done despite Majority opposition.

So which is it? Either it's Majority rules 100% of the time and therefore those advances should never have happened

OR

Sometimes a Minority should get special consideration on an issue that uniquely affects them which the Majority (in their ignorance) should not hold sway over them.

Just like Firearm laws.