The firearm thread

[husaberg]

So, it's all "Democracy Democracy Democracy" - right up until the point where the Democratic process doesn't give you what you want, then it's "It would not change anything, nothing useful" - that shows everyone what your (lack of) principals are....

If the submissions were 51 -49 opposing the Bill - would it be Democracy if it was rejected? what about 60-40 against? 70-30? We both know that even if there was 100% opposition submissions this bill would have gone through and we both know that you would still claim that this is 'Democracy'.



That's not Democracy, that's Tyranny by the Majority. And I'll come back to this in a moment...



Where were they polled from? What was their level of Knowledge on the Subject? You only have to look at the Media talking heads as a case in point - one saying that she had no idea what the current Gun laws are, Another saying he was shocked to find out you can own Assault Rifles in NZ (You can't).



I never said that.

You've been saying that if the Majority say it's so, then it must be right.
I'm pointing out that all of Mankinds greatest egalitarian advances (Abolition of Slavery, Suffrage for Women, Gay Rights etc. etc.) have been done despite Majority opposition.

So which is it? Either it's Majority rules 100% of the time and therefore those advances should never have happened

OR

Sometimes a Minority should get special consideration on an issue that uniquely affects them which the Majority (in their ignorance) should not hold sway over them.

Just like Firearm laws.

You are a joke.
What is beautifully ironic about the democratic process in which you lost you access to beloved AR10 is that the reason, by which you lost it is an immigrant, the same as you, spouting the exact same hate against a group of people, as you so often have on this very forums, actions that caused it all to occur.

[TheDemonLord]

You are a joke.
What is beautifully ironic about the democratic process in which you lost you access to beloved AR10 is that the reason, by which you lost it is an immigrant, the same as you, spouting the exact same hate against a group of people, as you so often have on this very forums, actions that caused it all to occur.

What is a joke, is the contempt (your own words) you have shown for those you don't like, is the same contempt that the Terrorist had.

[unstuck]

Welcome back hippie
3 years

Yeah, been living like a hippie in Nelson for 3 years, only came back on here to see if you were still flapping your gums. 😂👍

[Delerium]

Red hearing alert.... So what if the submissions were. 50?50 it would not change anything, Unless the submission said something useful.
We live in a democracy you claimed it was unfair as your views were not followed, tough.

Between April 6 and 10, 1009 eligible voters were polled via landline and mobile phone.
The maximum sampling error is approximately ±3.1%-points at the 95 per cent confidence level.
Sixty-one per cent thought the changes were about right, 19% thought it did not go far enough and 14% thought it went too far.
Five per cent didn't know, and 2% refused to answer.
This is the will of the majority of the people, Deal with it.
Out of all the Mps that represent the voters all bar one supported the bill.
You are a lunatic if you think you have being able to have a AR10 on a A class licence is comparable to slavery

Hey wanker if you want to keep red repping me how about you do it on an applicable post instead of working your way down my post list?

[Delerium]

Red hearing alert.... So what if the submissions were. 50?50 it would not change anything, Unless the submission said something useful.
We live in a democracy you claimed it was unfair as your views were not followed, tough.

Between April 6 and 10, 1009 eligible voters were polled via landline and mobile phone.
The maximum sampling error is approximately ±3.1%-points at the 95 per cent confidence level.
Sixty-one per cent thought the changes were about right, 19% thought it did not go far enough and 14% thought it went too far.
Five per cent didn't know, and 2% refused to answer.
This is the will of the majority of the people, Deal with it.
Out of all the Mps that represent the voters all bar one supported the bill.
You are a lunatic if you think you have being able to have a AR10 on a A class licence is comparable to slavery

No, you're either too stupid or deliberately ignorant to miss the concept that is being compared

[Delerium]

You are a joke.
What is beautifully ironic about the democratic process in which you lost you access to beloved AR10 is that the reason, by which you lost it is an immigrant, the same as you, spouting the exact same hate against a group of people, as you so often have on this very forums, actions that caused it all to occur.

Nah you're just a fascist that approves of democracy when it agrees with you.

Fascist.

[husaberg]

What is a joke, is the contempt (your own words) you have shown for those you don't like, is the same contempt that the Terrorist had.

You and your rants are treated with the contempt they deserve, You losing your AR10 is not an attack on democracy, quite the opposite, it shows it works.
Myself and 80% of all other kiwis believe in the law change, as do 99% of the other MP's, So thus, the law changes, this is democracy. If you don't like the laws in NZ, or intend not to follow them, its time past time you left NZ.
You follow and espouse on the net the exact same theories the killer had, you visit the same sites, You post the same material. Yet now you are moaning you don't have access to an AR and larg cap mags same as he did.............

[Graystone]

So, it's all "Democracy Democracy Democracy" - right up until the point where the Democratic process doesn't give you what you want, then it's "It would not change anything, nothing useful" - that shows everyone what your (lack of) principals are....

If the submissions were 51 -49 opposing the Bill - would it be Democracy if it was rejected? what about 60-40 against? 70-30? We both know that even if there was 100% opposition submissions this bill would have gone through and we both know that you would still claim that this is 'Democracy'.



That's not Democracy, that's Tyranny by the Majority. And I'll come back to this in a moment...



Where were they polled from? What was their level of Knowledge on the Subject? You only have to look at the Media talking heads as a case in point - one saying that she had no idea what the current Gun laws are, Another saying he was shocked to find out you can own Assault Rifles in NZ (You can't).



I never said that.

You've been saying that if the Majority say it's so, then it must be right.
I'm pointing out that all of Mankinds greatest egalitarian advances (Abolition of Slavery, Suffrage for Women, Gay Rights etc. etc.) have been done despite Majority opposition.

So which is it? Either it's Majority rules 100% of the time and therefore those advances should never have happened

OR

Sometimes a Minority should get special consideration on an issue that uniquely affects them which the Majority (in their ignorance) should not hold sway over them.

Just like Firearm laws.

There was so much stupid in that post it resurrected a dead meme.



And it's actually a relevant one, without a cogent argument, you fall back on all this false equivalency and whinging. Of course a representative democracy can go against majority opinion, but that's based on the merits of the point at hand, not the piss weak drivel you spout.

[TheDemonLord]

You and your rants are treated with the contempt they deserve, You losing your AR10 is not an attack on democracy, quite the opposite, it shows it works.
Myself and 80% of all other kiwis believe in the law change, as do 99% of the other MP's, So thus, the law changes, this is democracy. If you don't like the laws in NZ, or intend not to follow them, its time past time you left NZ.

Okay - lets go through this.

Something bad happened, people were killed by a Terrorist, The masses - ignorant of the minutia, not directly affected by the Ban themselves, vote to ban the thing that caused it.

So you'd be happy if say someone banned Immigration from Islamic countries then?

Oh wait....

So tell me - how is that any different?

You follow and espouse on the net the exact same theories the killer had, you visit the same sites, You post the same material.

If you think that, then you are clearly deluded. I know of the sites he posted his manifesto to and streamed his terrorist act to - I'm not on any of them.

Keep lying, it shows how full of shit you are.

Yet now you are moaning you don't have access to an AR and larg cap mags same as he did.............

I never had access to Large Capacity Magazines, because that would be a breach of my Licence. I've bought several 5 round Magazines.

And I've said, umpteen times - the same as every other Firearm owner in this thread, that we would ALL have been okay with a clarification of the existing law to restrict large capacity magazines that were patterned for semi-auto recievers to only Cat-E licence holders.

So anything else you'd like to lie (blatantly) about?

[TheDemonLord]

Of course a representative democracy can go against majority opinion, but that's based on the merits of the point at hand

Fine.

Care to define exactly what the Merits are?

But keep in mind, I will hold you to those merits, and I don't think you can articulate them without being prejudicial or without having unintended consequences for things you support.

[husaberg]

Okay - lets go through this.

Lets not, As you are not able to have an adult conversation, You used to, but it appears you suffering from something that prevents any logical thought processes occurring.
Maybe you just don't understand how democracy works. Or maybe you should just move. I don't care either way.
I am not going to waste further time on your futile nonsensical points that somehow place you in no particular order over the last 12 months
More about security than the FBI and the US state department.
More about the US Laws than a US Supreme Court Judge.
More about the law than any lawyer.
Let me put it in a way you might understand.
You don't get to decide yourself what the NZ laws will be, I don't care if you agree with this or not.
80% of Kiwis wanted these new gun laws get over it. 99% of the MP voted for it to change. Start a political party if you want, see how you get on.

[TheDemonLord]

Lets not,

What's the matter? I've given you an example of what your chain of reasoning leads to - and suddenly we get avoidance?

This is the text book example of "The rules only apply when they are in my favor". You've asserted that Democracy is when the Majority want something - I've given you multiple instances where major Human Rights advances (and things you presumably support) were made in direct opposition to what the majority wanted.

At least Graystone is honest enough to acknowledge this fact.

As for the rest of your drivel, that's simply your imagination at play.

And you keep harping on about 80% this - for a sample size of 1004, but ignoring the Submissions (with a sample size of around 15,000) which was closer to 60-40 (a Figure that includes duplicate entries and form submissions which, in accordance to prior standards set by the submissions process, should be counted as a single submission), if these duplicate and form submissions are removed, it is likely to be a lot closer to 50-50.

And since phone polls aren't part of the Democratic process and Submissions are, and you care oh so much about Democracy - let's use those figures eh - but then, that takes all the wind out of your blow-hard sails.

[jasonu]

I am not going to waste further time.

I'll bet you do. You can't help yourself.

[husaberg]

I'll bet you do. You can't help yourself.

Nah hes back on ignore i really dont know why i keep taking him off.
Anyone who cant figure out how basic democracy works is a waste of time.

[Graystone]

Fine.

Care to define exactly what the Merits are?

But keep in mind, I will hold you to those merits, and I don't think you can articulate them without being prejudicial or without having unintended consequences for things you support.

Of what? I'm not trying to overturn a majority opinion...