Mandatory ABS

[jellywrestler]

Tougher licensing tests would also go a long way to improving the crash stats.
As someone else said I can't remember the last time (or any time) I had an accidental lock up that was a concern.

i've not seen a test where you have to lock up your brakes to see whether you can handle your bike in that situation yet.

[pritch]

i've not seen a test where you have to lock up your brakes to see whether you can handle your bike in that situation yet.

Realistically most riders will never brake hard enough for the ABS to kick in - unless on a seriously dodgy surface.

[jasonu]

i've not seen a test where you have to lock up your brakes to see whether you can handle your bike in that situation yet.

Fair point but generally speaking getting a drivers/mc license in NZ is and always has been far too easy.

[F5 Dave]

so you think an afternoon training will give you the neccesary tools in your head to sort a out a near one off dodgy braking situation two or ten years later?

I don't, and I've run a few of those sessions .

Not dissing training. Far from it - as the vast improvement in the participant stopping distance is always eye opening even with experienced riders.

[speedpro]

Bit of a laugh this measuring skid marks after a crash. Who has ever left skid marks from a front wheel? If there is a skid mark it'll be the back wheel surely and IF you are hard on the front brake the back is going to be doing diddly. Apart from the more pedestrian and cruiser styles I can't see the back brake being much help in a full on braking situation. Wet conditions maybe but then there is likely to be not much of a skid mark due to the lack of traction anyway.
I recall vividly stopping behind this bus that lurched out blocking the lane and hearing skidding noises from behind. This guy turned up next to me with a death grip on the bars and the back all locked up. He didn't even have a finger on the brake lever.

[jellywrestler]

Realistically most riders will never brake hard enough for the ABS to kick in - unless on a seriously dodgy surface.

i'm an electrician, i only need one electric shock to kill me, realistically that won't happen.....

of course too, our country has no seriously dodgy surfaces, nor does anyone ever leak deisel either, nor is their ever gravel on a surface so what a big waste of fucking time.

[jellywrestler]

Fair point but generally speaking getting a drivers/mc license in NZ is and always has been far too easy.

when's the last time you've interacted with someone getting their license? from what i see it isn't helping a young fella last year, but of course once you walk out of that door there is pretty much zero retraining for the rest of your life

[onearmedbandit]

Bit of a laugh this measuring skid marks after a crash. Who has ever left skid marks from a front wheel? If there is a skid mark it'll be the back wheel surely and IF you are hard on the front brake the back is going to be doing diddly. Apart from the more pedestrian and cruiser styles I can't see the back brake being much help in a full on braking situation. Wet conditions maybe but then there is likely to be not much of a skid mark due to the lack of traction anyway.
I recall vividly stopping behind this bus that lurched out blocking the lane and hearing skidding noises from behind. This guy turned up next to me with a death grip on the bars and the back all locked up. He didn't even have a finger on the brake lever.

I remember when I first heard that story, was when ABS started to become common in cars.

[Jeeper]

Realistically most riders will never brake hard enough for the ABS to kick in - unless on a seriously dodgy surface.

You would be surprised how easily rear brake can lock up in wet conditions going downhill on a steep grade.

[sidecar bob]

You would be surprised how easily rear brake can lock up in wet conditions going downhill on a steep grade.

I'm not entirely sure I would be surprised, it sounds like a perfect recipie for a rear wheel lock up.

[Berries]

Bit of a laugh this measuring skid marks after a crash. Who has ever left skid marks from a front wheel? If there is a skid mark it'll be the back wheel surely and IF you are hard on the front brake the back is going to be doing diddly. Apart from the more pedestrian and cruiser styles I can't see the back brake being much help in a full on braking situation.

Seen plenty of examples of long skid marks from the back wheel right up to impact with an oncoming van on a left hander or a fence post. Two cases in the last 12 months were fatal. To me it smacks of inexperience in either riding or hard braking, and in putting yourself in the position where you are just way too hot in to the corner which again reads inexperience. Not youth mind.

Anyway, mandatory ABS. My GSXR does not have it but if it was standard it would have. I look at it as an airbag/ejector seat/Cypress kind of thing, when all else fails it might just help. I would not go out of the way to buy a bike with it but I wouldn't knock one back just because it did.

I just say make the most of it. Motorbikes are totally incompatible with the governments road safety vision and there is nothing anyone can say that will change that. If the wrong person in government gets in to the right position it'll all be over.

[speedpro]

There's actually a case for coupled brakes. With ABS I can see it being a benefit. Of course it would teach all sorts of bad habits and those lessons could be very bad if you went back to what is now a standard setup.

[rastuscat]

so you think an afternoon training will give you the neccesary tools in your head to sort a out a near one off dodgy braking situation two or ten years later?

Interesting. On the courses we instruct we show people good emergency braking technique then encourage them to practise it until they actually need it.

100% of the practise they dont do doesnt help.

[jellywrestler]

Interesting. On the courses we instruct we show people good emergency braking technique then encourage them to practise it until they actually need it.

100% of the practise they dont do doesnt help.

and that's the best way to learn anything, but this is a safety device that takes control usually when rider input has not worked,

[pritch]

I remember when I first heard that story,

When ABS first appeared in the showrooms here the local Transport Dept got together with the BMW/Suzuki dealer who supplied bikes and some staff at the local port. Big area of seal, private property, away from the pubic gaze, no concerns about breaking laws, etc.

The bikes were large in those days so the antics were reportedly impressive. The cops had been outspoken about their concerns re skid marks prior. After the tests/demos their comments were about the skills of the dealer staff, how hard the riders had to brake to get the ABS to work, and the stoppies they performed on the comparison bikes that did not have ABS.

Reading suggests there are riders who don't much use the front brake. This is commented on in US books (Ienatch for one from memory) and might be more common among cruiser riders.

As mentioned previously, on a good surface it takes a seriously hard application of the brakes to get the ABS to function, until that point is reached correct braking technique is still required. Instruction and practice are still valid.