The firearm thread

[Katman]

What do you think the government should do?

For a start, they should insist that the police do a proper job when handing out firearms licenses.

[Laava]

I don't think even you know what your point is.

If it's only honest people who hand in their guns how is that going to stop the next fuckwit who 'wigs out' from using a gun that they didn't hand in?

My point was that is is not the fault of the police that Tarrant shot the mosques up.
Then my second point was that the less MSSA's there are in circulation, the less likely they are going to get used for similar.
Is that clear to you now? I never said it would stop people like Tarrant, it is just a step in the right direction.

[Katman]

I never said it would stop people like Tarrant

So it's hardly made the place any safer, has it?

[Laava]

For a start, they should insist that the police do a proper job when handing out firearms licenses.

Of course they should. But we don't live in a perfect world and people always slip through the net don't they? Not making excuses for anyone but that is the case.

[Laava]

So it's hardly made the place any safer, has it?

Ok, so seeing as you are struggling with the concept of less guns and more licensing control, making a difference, you would probably be of the mindset that more MSSA's and more lax licensing control, conversely, would also not lead to more mass shooting scenarios?

[husaberg]

if that Nash cunt was so flash how come he has made a huge pigs ear of pretty much everything he has touched since he's been in office?

And you're the one who started wanking on about Paula Bennett. I really couldn't give a fuck.

I pointed out nash is far more qualified than his predecessor which was Paula bennet.
If you want to argue that on the merits of their qualifications or their experience go for it, but we both know you are as i said all mouth no trousers.
Its been proven time an time again that you dont have a decent grasp what actually is happening in NZ or even what the public's opinion is.
Hence how you argue will poll results claiming you know better if you dont agree with the result.

[TheDemonLord]

That's always been a given.
The new Laws are there to remove as many of these guns as possible to mitigate the next fuckwit that wigs out. How do you not understand that?

No, it removes the Firearms from honest people who were never a threat prior and never going to be a Threat.

Anyone who had ideas about doing something like the Terrorist - they aren't handing them in.
Anyone who feels rejected and alienated by society by the actions of this government and decides to take action - they aren't handing them in.
Judging by the Numbers so far, 90% of the Firearm owners who don't think it's right to be forced to pay a fine for a Crime they didn't commit - they aren't handing them in either.

As you yourself have clearly and definitively stated - it's not going to stop a determined person, so the Law is not going to achieve it's stated goal.

All it does is punish Law Abiding citizens for the Crime of following the Law.

And that last statement is not hyperbole, the Police are doing exactly that.

[TheDemonLord]

Ok, so seeing as you are struggling with the concept of less guns and more licensing control, making a difference, you would probably be of the mindset that more MSSA's and more lax licensing control, conversely, would also not lead to more mass shooting scenarios?

It's a balancing act, and please stop using the term MSSA, since it is ALL centre-fire Semi-Autos that have been banned, not just MSSAs.

It's not the number of Firearms in Circulation that is the issue. The issue is who has them and how are they stored.

You can have a population (such as NZ) with a relatively high rate of Firearm ownership and a very low rate of Firearm crime - this is because in general, the people that have Firearms are responsible Law Abiding people.

The problem with what happened here, it's not a 'Police Slip up', I would never ever EVER take a character reference for an individual, from someone who only knew them from an Internet Forum.

I doubt many would here either, unless they had met the other person in person on multiple occasions. I wouldn't do this for a Job Interview, much less for something where there was a higher level of Vetting required (like, I dunno, Owning a Firearms Licence...).

This isn't a marginal call where they didn't err on the side of Caution, this is a massive failing of basic common sense - the Arms Office - when the Terrorist couldn't produce a Character reference should have declined the application. End of. But instead, thanks to cuts made by a Certain Socialist PM, they just waived it through.

Or perhaps to put it another way:

We Firearm owners don't mind proper licencing control, we don't mind being interviewed, having our backgrounds checked, having our Spouses interviewed, having our Safes inspected etc. We want to be properly vetted, both to make sure to the wider NZ Public that those who have Licences are fit and proper but also to make sure that our Fellow Firearm owners are Fit and Proper (and not going to do something stupid, resulting in our freedoms being revoked).

What happened here however was that the NZ Police failed (and continue to fail) to do the bare minimum that is required of them, within the bounds of the previous legislation. As a result, we (the Firearm owners, who did nothing wrong) get punished.

[TheDemonLord]

My apologies - I never got to read it.

Hairy Muff,

If I was to put on my Tinfoil hat, I'd point to changes made by the Administration of the Arms act by Comrade Jacinda, I'd point to statements attributed to her that the only way to get a Firearm law change would be to have something like Port Arthur happen, I'd point to the fact that they Censured the Manifesto and I'd point to the fact that in the Manifesto, he's not the extreme right-wing fascist that he's been made out to be, he's got a disturbing amount of commonality with the far Left (such as praising China, describing himself as an Eco-Fascist) and the fact that he played them like a Fiddle, knowing exactly what their response would be and how to get them to do what he wanted - that suggests he is intimately familiar with the far-left mindset.

But I digress.

[Laava]

We Firearm owners don't mind proper licencing control, we don't mind being interviewed, having our backgrounds checked, having our Spouses interviewed, having our Safes inspected etc. We want to be properly vetted, both to make sure to the wider NZ Public that those who have Licences are fit and proper but also to make sure that our Fellow Firearm owners are Fit and Proper (and not going to do something stupid, resulting in our freedoms being revoked

Thanks for the big condescending sermon. We firearm owners hate that kind of thing. You carry on like you're the only one who knows what is going on, well there is no mystery, we all know and understand what is being required to be handed in and why. I have probably been hunting and shooting a lot longer than you as well but didn't feel a need to shove that down your throat. Get over yourself.

[TheDemonLord]

Thanks for the big condescending sermon. We firearm owners hate that kind of thing. You carry on like you're the only one who knows what is going on, well there is no mystery, we all know and understand what is being required to be handed in and why. I have probably been hunting and shooting a lot longer than you as well but didn't feel a need to shove that down your throat. Get over yourself.

And what is the Why?

Because you've proved it's not Public Safety, by your own statements (and by the Terrorists own statements as well). In fact, he stated as much his reasons for doing what he did, Something that unless you read what he wrote, you have only the out-of-context snippets posted by a Media with an Agenda to go on.

I can assure you, as can others, that there is a lot more to what he did than the narrative that's being trotted out.

Furthermore ,It's not like there isn't a long history of Socialists enacting strict Firearm control after dubious circumstances.

But I'll make you a deal - If you pay me the difference that I'll be out of pocket, then I'll stop with the condescending Sermons.

Put Your Money where your Mouth is...

[jasonu]

I never said it would stop people like Tarrant,

But that was the whole point of the ban and now you say it won't work so it is in fact pointless.

[Laava]

But that was the whole point of the ban and now you say it won't work so it is in fact pointless.

All you ever do is snipe at people I've noticed. Like a fucking child.

[Laava]

And what is the Why?

Because you've proved it's not Public Safety, by your own statements (and by the Terrorists own statements as well). In fact, he stated as much his reasons for doing what he did, Something that unless you read what he wrote, you have only the out-of-context snippets posted by a Media with an Agenda to go on.

I can assure you, as can others, that there is a lot more to what he did than the narrative that's being trotted out.

Furthermore ,It's not like there isn't a long history of Socialists enacting strict Firearm control after dubious circumstances.

But I'll make you a deal - If you pay me the difference that I'll be out of pocket, then I'll stop with the condescending Sermons.

Put Your Money where your Mouth is...

Bla bla bla, Wales, you bore for it.

[jasonu]

All you ever do is snipe at people I've noticed. Like a fucking child.

No snipe just a reply to what you posted.

However I do enjoy poking shit at husaberg.