Australia Fire storm.

[Katman]

It is real, how can it not be after ripping down trees and spewing co2 into the atmosphere with less ability to scrub it out.

As has been pointed out though, the climate has always gone through changes.

Instead of focusing on the words 'climate change' and all the airy-fairiness that goes with it, we'd be better off focusing on the root cause - which surely has to be deforestation.

[Jeeper]

It is real, how can it not be after ripping down trees and spewing co2 into the atmosphere with less ability to scrub it out.

You know what the sad reality is that the Earth actually has more trees now than say 30/35 years ago. In terms of absolute number of trees. But they are plantation forests, which do not support the biodiversity as the old growth forest does. Pine forests in NZ might scrub the CO2, but it's not supporting anything else on the floor of the forest.

Statistics and 'facts' can be easily manipulated whichever way you want.

[mashman]

My only problem with that is, if the whole 'climate change' story is truly for the betterment of mankind and the planet, why would it be based on a hoax?

And conversely, if the whole 'climate change' story is based on a hoax then it is absolutely vital to expose that hoax so we can get back to concentrating on issues that truly are for the betterment of mankind and the planet.

Other than being just anther control mechanism... Because what they were asking for in the 60's, in terms of pollution and the environment, didn't make a dent in the direction that followed. What else can you do when you know that mass scale unsustainability is looming in the future (the message of the 60's and we are the proof today) and the narrative is rigged, other than go with the narrative and push it to extremes that see it threaten mankind in the hope that it'll wake us up enough to react accordingly. Well, at least that's A potential reason why "good" scientists might embrace "bad" science... especially if you get to knock it down later and sew doubt etc... but such are tactics used by all parties.

Aye, concentrating on preparing for either type of climate change is eminently more important, because we know it can get hotter and colder and that the weather changes can be sever with natural local and extra-terrestrial events on scales that can fuck us up pretty quick smart like. If we prepared in such a way, we wouldn't need to rely on the science/politics/business for setting any given direction, as the direction would be pretty self-explanatory... but hey, that's next year

[mashman]

You know what the sad reality is that the Earth actually has more trees now than say 30/35 years ago. In terms of absolute number of trees. But they are plantation forests, which do not support the biodiversity as the old growth forest does. Pine forests in NZ might scrub the CO2, but it's not supporting anything else on the floor of the forest.

Statistics and 'facts' can be easily manipulated whichever way you want.

And many of the trees felled 30/35 years ago were much older than 30/35.

[FJRider]

... Wasn't it fixed by making changes to aerosol products etc. NASA found the hole and legislation was put through and it worked.

Where was this legislation put through ... ie: what countries ??? Or was it for the entire planet ??

Was the hole in the Ozone layer above Antarctica ... the only one they found ???

[FJRider]

... But they are plantation forests, which do not support the biodiversity as the old growth forest does. Pine forests in NZ might scrub the CO2, but it's not supporting anything else on the floor of the forest.

In my youth I worked for the Forest service in the central north island (out of Turangi). One block of Pine forest that was planted next to a native bush reserve ... was found to have native birds (including Kiwi) that spread themselves out into the exotic pine forest. The area planted was an area native trees were milled in the early days. Not much was left .. and what was left was burnt. The native undergrowth came away again ... but it was by no means only native bush undergrowth.

Statistics and 'facts' can be easily manipulated whichever way you want.

Who needs facts ... you just have to make it sound right. That's how some scams become so successful ...

[MaxPenguin]

Where was this legislation put through ... ie: what countries ??? Or was it for the entire planet ??

Was the hole in the Ozone layer above Antarctica ... the only one they found ???

Montreal protocol 1987. Hole was/is over Antarctica and this year is the smallest it's been.

[Viking01]

Where was this legislation put through ... ie: what countries ??? Or was it for the entire planet ??

Was the hole in the Ozone layer above Antarctica ... the only one they found ???

Maybe have a browse through the following link for some of the historical background on the ozone issue. The easiest way is to do a search for the keyword 'ozone' within the article (CTL-F), and then read forward from the first instance found.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...tmag&smtyp=cur

From memory, the surprising aspect was that there actually was some final agreement on legislation, and taking of global action (cease production and usage of CFC's).

[PrincessBandit]

While you guys are busy kicking each other in the balls I'm sewing wildlife pouches to send over to Australia for the animal rescue organisations that need them. Time to reactivate the Scary Bikers Sewing group??

[MaxPenguin]

While you guys are busy kicking each other in the balls I'm sewing wildlife pouches to send over to Australia for the animal rescue organisations that need them. Time to reactivate the Scary Bikers Sewing group??

Good stuff. Actually I thought that the discussion was pretty robust(husaberg being the exception) and pretty educational.

[Viking01]

I've thought for some time now that one day wars will be fought over water.

Think that you can safely say that that day is already upon us. Attach a few links that might be of interest .

1. Global Water Availability or Scarcity

https://www.wri.org/applications/maps/aqueduct-atlas/

2. Possibility of Conflict over Water

Slowly becoming a reality in parts of the world.

https://www.rt.com/news/water-shorta...opulation-901/
https://www.project-syndicate.org/co...-ghosh-2019-11

3. Possible Conflict Areas

You only have to look at various areas on the global map to see potential (or active) conflict areas:

- Rivers from Himalayas down through Asia
- India and Pakistan
- From Lebanon down through the Golan to Jordan
- From Turkey down through Iraq
- From Ethiopia through Sudan to Egypt
- Across the African Sahel

4. Possible Global Economic Impact

A 2016 report on global water scarcity:

https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/w...nd-the-economy

5. Global Corporate Knowledge and Activity
Certain major global corporates are well ahead of the rest of the pack in terms of securing and "locking up" ongoing access to water resources:

https://www.cdp.net/en/research/glob...er-report-2017
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-ne...-water/5383274
https://www.globalresearch.ca/swiss-...zation/5687211

6. New Zealand

And here in NZ, as you will know, we are not spared from water related issues. Whether they be issues of (i) water availability and allocation for local consumption (ii) water quality (iii) water pricing and export (iv) cost of building infrastructure for water reticulation.

https://www.mfe.govt.nz/sites/defaul...a-glance_0.pdf
https://www.mfe.govt.nz/fresh-water/...ntal-reporting

Finish with an article from an area with which I am familiar:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/...ase-irrigation

[FJRider]

Montreal protocol 1987. Hole was/is over Antarctica and this year is the smallest it's been.

Even less enforceable than the Geneva convention.

And how many countries signed it that were from Aisa ??

[FJRider]

Montreal protocol 1987. Hole was/is over Antarctica and this year is the smallest it's been.

Do you really believe THAT fixed "The Hole" ... ??

[MaxPenguin]

Do you really believe THAT fixed "The Hole" ... ??

It's likely that it did, but I assume you know something else about it that I don't so do tell.

[FJRider]

It's likely that it did, but I assume you know something else about it that I don't so do tell.

"Since 2013, annual emissions of a banned chlorofluorocarbon (CFC) have increased by around 7,000 tonnes from eastern China, according to new research published in Nature today [Wednesday 22 May 2019] by an international team of scientists from the UK, South Korea, Japan, USA, Australia and Switzerland."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0522141808.htm

Perhaps ... unlikely.