The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

[Dean]

Colour has nothing to do with it.

Have you watched the videos on any of the shootings? In all cases he was attacked, whilst retreating before he fired.

Person 1 threw something at him, then charged him attempting to seize his rifle - He got shot multiple times and died. He then immediately called the police to inform them of the shooting.

Then, attempting to withdraw with a mob coming after him, some guy gets him on the ground and tries to pull a gun on him - who gets shot in the Arm, not fatally shot.

Person 2 attempts to seize his rifle, he rolls to the side and fires a single shot through the heart.

Afterwards he turns himself in to the police.

I'll hear an argument that he was playing Cop and shouldn't have been there, but if you want to indulge that, then you'll have to concede that the Rioters shouldn't have been there either.

There's also footage from the evening before the shooting of him grabbing a Fire Extinguisher to put out a fire that the rioters were attempting to start on a building (this is believed to be the catalyst for the first shooting - the Rioters were upset someone stopped their Orgy of Destruction) and footage of him proving medical aid to Rioters who were injured.

Simply put - this is probably going to be a textbook case whereby the Defence is going to argue that his actions constitute the very definition of a 'well regulated militia', point to the video evidence of him attempting to withdraw whilst being chased and attacked by an Angry Mob out for Blood and Destruction and claim self defence.

Edit:

As an aside - I can't stand Harry Potter. I forced myself to watch the movies and wasn't impressed (except the Score - the Soundtrack was amazing)

The root of the issue here is this was all avoidable - had he not got involved.

But you use deflection by creating an argument of “well then they shouldn’t be there either”.
This is an unproductive approach, doesn’t encourage accountability & wouldn’t hold up in court and you know it.

This kid knowingly accepted the risks of getting involved by travelling across state lines, illegally brandishing an assault weapon (which you seem to breeze past, the protestor who pulled a gun on him was legally carrying and practising HIS right to self defence). Therefore he must accept the consequences that come with it.

It is questionable whether the kid had bad intentions - he didn’t own any of the businesses that he was trying to protect. But didn’t mind putting some bullets through a few individuals.

I have seen the videos and only a minute few of protesters were visibly carrying guns, how is that kid acting out of self defence when he is the clear aggressor with an assault rifle? Its just as fair to state that the protesters acted out of self defence because an armed man illegally brandishing an assault weapon was a direct threat to their lives?

[sugilite:Me]

Completely different Circumstances - one being a private conversation taped in secret by a 3rd party and the other being a publicly posted picture by the person themselves.

Really, was it posted on one of her social media accounts or something?

I don't know how you can say that, when the BLM founders proudly state they are trained Marxists.

Really? links?

As for the last statement, that's a pretty serious accusation - and one, if I'm quite honest, I'm a bit fucked off at. I don't care for ANYONE colour. I care a bit about peoples Ideas and some of those ideas have a cultural element that the disingenuous seek to conflate with Race.

If you think that my generally libertarian leanings are somehow Fascist - then that is only definitive proof of how far Left the current left have gone.

You profess to slightly leaning to the left but post 99% from the hard right. You deny Black people the right to protest due to your socialism communist hatred. I stand by my comment, you posts have a lot of fascist overtones. A leader or 2 are fans of Marxism, so they must all be predominantly Marxists seems to be the rule of thumb for you.

Maybe... Just Maybe... He was radicalized by seeing revolutionary communists burning down his community.

Just like Ken and Karen Chadbro - lifelong Democrat voters until the Revolutionary Communists mob threatened their home.

His social media professes blue lives matter and Trump support. Which is fine until you start murdering people.
If it is the couple I think you are talking about, the protesters never even approached their home. Just a couple of rednecks wanting to get their guns out.

This is not ignoring, I've long since accepted that in every US election from around the 1930s onwards there has been Russian interference. My original burden of proof was that the level of interference exceeded that of previous elections and was more effective - and considering all the known factors from the electoral data, the case doesn't have merit on it's face.

But being the fair-minded person I am, I took another listen - I heard claims (from a source I treat as suspect and politically motivated) but what I didn't hear was anything approaching proof.

Conveniently forgetting that Trump called on Russia to hack US government servers, which they then obliged. And that was only on the surface that people could see, imagine what was going on out of sight - wakey wakey.

Taking you on your word: Still more preferable to what the wannabe revolutionaries want....

You mean the completely ineffective Marxists that do not stand a chance of even getting a toenail hold in the USA vs a President actively dismantling the constitution while pillaging and raping the system for his own advantage? My Goodness man, your Marxists fears are surely at mental illness levels.

I have no doubt that some bad actors have joined in under the banner of the rioting and looting to cause further chaos.

And lets watch that expand as Trump is laughably running on law and order. Would not surprise me one bit if Trump and his minions financed infiltrators to keep the fear factor going.

70% of all Divorces are initiated by Women, which (depending on some factors) can rise as high as 90% - so if she was married and divorced - statistically, she would have instigated it.

As for Context - it was presented as a specific example of a wider issue, a meta-example if you will - thus it is the meta-context that is relevant.

And all this crystal ball work, but Trumps own sisters clear and concise recordings - including the latest out yesterday, which adds context for you as well. Just sad bro.

Why should the Bank pay a premium for non-premium labor in order to subsidize their employees Life Choices?

Yes, why should the filthy rich bankers pay a living wage to employees living in the area their branches operate.

You mean like when there's multiple businesses on fire, People are rioting, you see the Police in full gear and the Media coverage is 'Mostly peacefull'?

And you wonder why I'm a teensy bit skeptical?

No, your Marxist paranoia fogs your views on so many subjects.

Oh I definitely like to argue, I'm not shy about that - It's more that Trump pisses the right people off, He acts in a manner that makes them show their true colours. I can point out all the Communist rhetoric till I'm blue in the face and the 'normies' (average people who haven't been involved in the goings on of the past decade) won't bat an eyelid or might think I'm a loon - but when they burn down cities, create communes, demand that Police be defunded etc. The average person goes 'wait, what?'.

And here we go again, if you had spent any time in the USA, you would realize marxism, communism, socialism simply could not exist there. The majority of protesters would ask you WTF with all this crazy babbling you do while devaluing their right to protest their MANY genuine grievances.

[pritch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9P2IYE9Uw4

[sugilite:Me]

He only hires the best - until they are not - then he cannot remember their names or labels them ex disgruntled employees. It is never "him" eh Demon lord?



Shit at hiring
Shit Manager
Shit for brains

[TheDemonLord]

The root of the issue here is this was all avoidable - had he not got involved.

Or if the Rioters weren't rioting - which, y'know was the instigating factor, the reason he decided to get involved in the first place.

But you use deflection by creating an argument of “well then they shouldn’t be there either”.
This is an unproductive approach, doesn’t encourage accountability & wouldn’t hold up in court and you know it.

Who committed the first illegal act - let's start there - which happens to be entirely relevant, even in a court.

This kid knowingly accepted the risks of getting involved by travelling across state lines, illegally brandishing an assault weapon (which you seem to breeze past, the protestor who pulled a gun on him was legally carrying and practising HIS right to self defence). Therefore he must accept the consequences that come with it.

And he did - he called the Police and turned himself in. The problem with 'practicing HIS right to self defence' as you put it, is two-fold:

1: Rittenhouse was retreating from the location whilst being chased by the person who he subsequently shot. Even in States that have Stand-your-ground laws (whereby you can use deadly force for self-defence in Public, without the requirement of first trying to remove yourself from the confrontation) - the moment you advance on someone - that makes YOU the aggressor.

2: Rittenhouse had his Rifle (not an assault weapon) in a low ready, before the other person pulled his weapon and started to present it towards him - at which point, he got shot in the Arm - Therefore clearly the aggresor.

The fact that he didn't fire any follow-up shots (which he was both capable and would have been justified in doing so, since the guy was still holding onto his Firearm) is proof that he was only shooting to remove the threat, not to kill.

It is questionable whether the kid had bad intentions - he didn’t own any of the businesses that he was trying to protect. But didn’t mind putting some bullets through a few individuals.

Does he need to?

I have seen the videos and only a minute few of protesters were visibly carrying guns, how is that kid acting out of self defence when he is the clear aggressor with an assault rifle? Its just as fair to state that the protesters acted out of self defence because an armed man illegally brandishing an assault weapon was a direct threat to their lives?

Firstly - pet peeve - not an Assault Rifle - doesn't have a Fun selector.

https://greatgameindia.com/wp-conten...tions.jpg.webp

See the above picture - you see how Kyle is on the floor being kicked in the head, after attempting to retreat? That, right there, is why he is the one that gets to claim self defence and the people that got shot (who attacked him in the first instance as part of all 3 shootings) won't.

[TheDemonLord]

Really, was it posted on one of her social media accounts or something?

Her own Twitter - verification from Snopes here: You'll have to scroll down as it deals with a number of other rumours that are false

Really? links?

Whilst I'm sure I've posted it before - it may or may not have been when we weren't chatting, so I'll indulge this.

https://youtu.be/kCghDx5qN4s?t=399

But I want to go further and just expand on this - The BLM Symbol - is the Socialist Fist.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

Comrades? "Supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively"? Privelege? Disrupting western-prescribed Nuclear Families? Dismantling the Patriarchy?

How many more Marxist derived talking points do you want? And this is all directly from the source - no middle-man here.

You profess to slightly leaning to the left but post 99% from the hard right.

Such as? And what do you define as the Hard Right? I can assure you, the values that I hold are the principles of British Liberalism, which is a centre-left political perspective.

The fact that what was once centre-left is now characterized as 'Hard Right' is a testament to just how far Left the Left have gone.

You deny Black people the right to protest due to your socialism communist hatred.

Protesting is fine.

Looting is not.
Arson is not.
Vandalism is not.
Rioting is not.
Expropriation is not.

I stand by my comment, you posts have a lot of fascist overtones. A leader or 2 are fans of Marxism, so they must all be predominantly Marxists seems to be the rule of thumb for you.

Okay then - Name those Fascist ideas then - because that is a very weighty accusation, so I'd suggest being very certain about what is and is not Fascist and what I advocate for.

And for the record, since I like you as a person - considering I frequently advocate for things like: Freedom of Speech, Personal Liberty, extending the protection of rights to those you disagree with - you are going to have an exceptionally hard time making those accusations stick - since those 3 alone are in direct opposition to any form of Fascist ideology.

His social media professes blue lives matter and Trump support. Which is fine until you start murdering people.
If it is the couple I think you are talking about, the protesters never even approached their home. Just a couple of rednecks wanting to get their guns out.

And whence did Blue Lives Matter come forth? Could it be due to the actions of 'revolutionary communists burning down Communities'?

The Angry Mob broke onto private property, ostensibly to go 'visit' someone who they didn't like (to have a civil conversation, I'm sure....), Some of them chanting about taking over property that they felt was 'owed to them' (sorta like the Workers seizing the means of Production....) and as for Couple of Rednecks - I think you mean lifelong Democrat voters and the most middle-aged of suburban couples

Conveniently forgetting that Trump called on Russia to hack US government servers, which they then obliged. And that was only on the surface that people could see, imagine what was going on out of sight - wakey wakey.

Sure, let's take that as holywrit - Still doesn't prove the claimed Conspiracy that Russian interference significantly interfered with the election in a way that is substantively different from before.

You mean the completely ineffective Marxists that do not stand a chance of even getting a toenail hold in the USA vs a President actively dismantling the constitution while pillaging and raping the system for his own advantage? My Goodness man, your Marxists fears are surely at mental illness levels.

Except for the entirety of the US Education system, in particular the majority of the University system (with the exception of the STEM and Law fields), Hollywood (kinda a big deal), Major corporations who have supported 'Woke' causes (Social Justice is entirely a Marxist concept - see Yuri Bezmenov, in 1984 describing how it works - nearly 40 years ago), Twitter, Facebook, Google etc. have adopted policies that have a Left-wing view of certain issues. The gaming industry (although with Doom Eternal and the latest Call of Duty - they have started to realise that Get Woke, Go Broke is a thing). The Comic Book Industry.

Yeah - totally don't have a toenail hold in the USA (although, I'll expand on this below)

And lets watch that expand as Trump is laughably running on law and order. Would not surprise me one bit if Trump and his minions financed infiltrators to keep the fear factor going.

If I'd played the George Soros funds everything that is the root of all evil card, You'd have rightfully mocked me - so when you are insinuating the reverse, what do you think I'm likely to do?

And all this crystal ball work, but Trumps own sisters clear and concise recordings - including the latest out yesterday, which adds context for you as well. Just sad bro.

When you've got a 90% chance of something, it's not really a Crystal Ball at that point, more like a forgone conclusion.

Yes, why should the filthy rich bankers pay a living wage to employees living in the area their branches operate.

Listen to what the Banker said 'It's an entry level position, attainable straight out of HighSchool' - No Qualifications needed, no Work Experience needed, the Salary is based upon the skills needed (or in this case, not needed) for the job.

What is a Living wage? And let's be reaaaaaally specific about this - firstly because what is considered a Luxury and a necessity changes with time - Is the Internet a Necessity? I'll accept an argument that given how many business opportunities and communication is done online these days, that it is, but was it 10 years ago or 20? I remember when I got my first Dial-up connection in around the year 2000, I'd had a PC for nearly a decade by then - so definitely wasn't a necessity then.

Does a Living Wage include dependents? If so, how many? 1? 2? 3? What about a House? Should it be enough to pay a Mortgage? or just Rent? What about flatting etc? What about a Car? A Cell Phone?

What if someone has a 'Living Wage' but is still living beyond their means - does that oblige the Empoyer to pay them more to fund their Lifestyle, if not, then how is that any different to the example given?

No, your Marxist paranoia fogs your views on so many subjects.

When they are outright stating it, not really Paranoia, is it? When you've got Mobs of people repeating revolutionary Rhetoric and espousing lunatic ideas like completely defund the police - at what point do you consider it at least rational?

And here we go again, if you had spent any time in the USA, you would realize marxism, communism, socialism simply could not exist there. The majority of protesters would ask you WTF with all this crazy babbling you do while devaluing their right to protest their MANY genuine grievances.

So, I actually entirely agree with you - both because Communism, Marxism and Socialism cannot exist anywhere but more specifically because I'm well aware that most people don't want it.

Above I said I'd expand on your Toenail comment - The average person has no interest in it - we saw that with the UK Election (Boris vs Corbyn) and when polled - the ex-labour voters were clear - they didn't want Corbyn because of his Marxist leanings.

It's the same reason I predict that Trump is going to comfortably win a re-election - because you are quite right that they don't want any form of Marxism. And when the average centre-left voter sees their Democratic candidates caving to the Marxist demands of the angry Mob - they are going 'Wait, what?'

When it comes to the Majority of Protestors - They probably don't know that the BLM fist symbol is the Socialist Revolutionary symbol. They probably aren't aware of the theory that underpins the movement they are aligned with - the KGB had a term for these people 'Useful Idiots' - not a particularly nice term - however there are people who may have well-meant intentions who are easily swayed by a 'Trained Marxist': "You support Social Justice don't you? I mean who would support Social Injustice, right? Afterall, wouldn't everything be better if everyone got what they needed, according to their needs...." And that's how otherwise reasonable people descend into pulling down statues and burning down buildings.

Now to get onto your final point - After George Floyd - Immediately after - Every Libertarian, Conservative, Pro-2A, Pro-Law Enforcement channel that I watch all agreed that based on the initial video it was wrong and something needed to be done. How is that devaluing their Grievance?

The problem is that they aren't just protesting - as I've mentioned before - Protest is fine, even if it's protest I disagree with - it's still their right to do so and their right is my right. Rioting, Looting etc. is not Fine. At that moment - Most of the Goodwill that existed went up in smoke (pun fully intended).

But even then, some people were willing to look past the violence based on exceptional circumstances, to hear what was being said - and that is when the calls to 'Defund the Police' were heard, which, considering we know what happens to areas that don't have a police presence, is absolute lunacy.

Then we ask to look more into what their Grievances are - some of which aren't borne out by the data, some of which omit several key factors, some of which are outright lies and some of which are probably true or have an element of truth in them -

No one has ever said that there aren't Racist Cops in the US, I'm sure there are. There are probably some who are jaded and or cynical to the point of being indistinguishable from Racists. There are some Cops who simply want a legal way to assert power over others. The bit I contest is the 'institutional' part - which always seems to be comprised of some dubious statistics produced by people who have a vested interest (cough Marxist derived Grievance studies Cough) and follow Statistical modelling that would get laughed out of a Maths class.

Finally (and yes, this section has been a bit long, but it's important to cover off each aspect of it) We get to the real crux of the issue - What is the biggest threat to Young, Black Americans - it's certainly not the Police. In fact, the biggest threat is one which defunding and removing the Police from certain areas isn't going to alleviate that threat but is going to aggravate it - so what does that tell you about the real motivations of Black Lives Matter?


Edit: and in case you are wondering - this Post was written whilst I was producing a number of automated BI reports for Upper Management.

[Kickaha]

And he did - he called the Police and turned himself in.

He called one of his mates to tell them he had shot someone and that guy called the police

[pritch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSLpwYCByQ0

[pritch]

A leader or 2 are fans of Marxism, so they must all be predominantly Marxists seems to be the rule of thumb for you.

In the interest of just a modicum of accuracy.

As I understand it, the BLM movement arose out of the protests following the killing of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman and then in Ferguson following the police shooting of Michael Brown. Sadly there has been a succession of police killings since to keep the protests going.

Three entrepreneurial women registered the name "Black Lives Matter" and became BLM Inc, so to speak. They claimed that the people who had been gassed and arrested at Ferguson etc were not part of the BLM movement. This caused some consternation among those who had done the hard yards..

The three women reportedly all profess to be gay and one claims to be a Marxist. None of which should suggest that all BLM protestors are gay Marxists. Although this may come as news to some RWNJs.

[sugilite:Me]

Her own Twitter - verification from Snopes here: You'll have to scroll down as it deals with a number of other rumours that are false

ok, accepted

Whilst I'm sure I've posted it before - it may or may not have been when we weren't chatting, so I'll indulge this.

https://youtu.be/kCghDx5qN4s?t=399

But I want to go further and just expand on this - The BLM Symbol - is the Socialist Fist.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

Comrades? "Supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively"? Privelege? Disrupting western-prescribed Nuclear Families? Dismantling the Patriarchy?

How many more Marxist derived talking points do you want? And this is all directly from the source - no middle-man here.

So a small handful of them have Marxist leanings (and I'm not sure that makes them bad people either, it's just another political system). Political systems are kinda like religions, most think they are the only right ones.

Such as? And what do you define as the Hard Right? I can assure you, the values that I hold are the principles of British Liberalism, which is a centre-left political perspective.

The fact that what was once centre-left is now characterized as 'Hard Right' is a testament to just how far Left the Left have gone.

Trump is the poster boy for hard right and you are willingly blind to the fact of his ways, as long as he attacks the left you are all good.
Noticed you did not reply about the sister thing, a little too much context out there now with the latest releases for even you to justify?

Protesting is fine.

Looting is not.
Arson is not.
Vandalism is not.
Rioting is not.
Expropriation is not.

I agree, but like I said right at the start of the Floyd protests, miscreants will always use chaos to their advantage. The do not give a fuck about left, right and such. They just thrive in chaos.
By far and away most of the protesters are protesting peacefully, but you want to assign the acts of a very small minority to the majority, but only when it suits to support your positions I have noticed.

Okay then - Name those Fascist ideas then - because that is a very weighty accusation, so I'd suggest being very certain about what is and is not Fascist and what I advocate for.

And for the record, since I like you as a person - considering I frequently advocate for things like: Freedom of Speech, Personal Liberty, extending the protection of rights to those you disagree with - you are going to have an exceptionally hard time making those accusations stick - since those 3 alone are in direct opposition to any form of Fascist ideology.

Just the act of denying black people the right to protest and writing of their valid grievances because 0.5% of "them" riot, burn and pillage. And as mentioned the majority of the miscreants don't give a fuck about what the others are protesting about. I view you as being quite soulless when it comes to branches of humanity that is facing struggle. If anything effects you directly, then wahooo it is off to the races about social standards being upheld. Anything outside of that, you are caviler, cold, callous and in my opinion have a reasonably fascist outlook. I'm entitled to my opinion, and there it is.

And whence did Blue Lives Matter come forth? Could it be due to the actions of 'revolutionary communists burning down Communities'?

No, just right wing nut jobs fanning the flames of fear. The blue team have some serious cleaning house to do, as they have needed to do for a very long time. They just need to get on with it and stop brushing it under the carpet.

The Angry Mob broke onto private property, ostensibly to go 'visit' someone who they didn't like (to have a civil conversation, I'm sure....), Some of them chanting about taking over property that they felt was 'owed to them' (sorta like the Workers seizing the means of Production....) and as for Couple of Rednecks - I think you mean lifelong Democrat voters and the most middle-aged of suburban couples

OK, I think I'm thinking of a different couple, the video I saw had that couple coming out there house with guns and engaging the march where people were not approaching their house at all. For your info, rednecks are not restricted to being right wing, there is more to life than left right politics.

Sure, let's take that as holywrit - Still doesn't prove the claimed Conspiracy that Russian interference significantly interfered with the election in a way that is substantively different from before.

Yes, by all means just write it all off as inconsequential as it is not supportive of your narrative.
I look forward to your I don't care attitude if the dems were to pull the same stunts and have the Biden team actively work with the russians.

Except for the entirety of the US Education system, in particular the majority of the University system (with the exception of the STEM and Law fields), Hollywood (kinda a big deal), Major corporations who have supported 'Woke' causes (Social Justice is entirely a Marxist concept - see Yuri Bezmenov, in 1984 describing how it works - nearly 40 years ago), Twitter, Facebook, Google etc. have adopted policies that have a Left-wing view of certain issues. The gaming industry (although with Doom Eternal and the latest Call of Duty - they have started to realise that Get Woke, Go Broke is a thing). The Comic Book Industry.

Really, The "WHOLE" education system is marxist? What a knob.

Yeah - totally don't have a toenail hold in the USA (although, I'll expand on this below)



If I'd played the George Soros funds everything that is the root of all evil card, You'd have rightfully mocked me - so when you are insinuating the reverse, what do you think I'm likely to do?

I have heard the name is passing, but do not really know who George Soros is and no time to look, so fire away with impunity from ridicule from me.

When you've got a 90% chance of something, it's not really a Crystal Ball at that point, more like a forgone conclusion.

Did you just bump that percentage up from your earlier post?
This is an excellent example of your caviler soulless approach. Condemn and move on.

Listen to what the Banker said 'It's an entry level position, attainable straight out of HighSchool' - No Qualifications needed, no Work Experience needed, the Salary is based upon the skills needed (or in this case, not needed) for the job.

What is a Living wage? And let's be reaaaaaally specific about this - firstly because what is considered a Luxury and a necessity changes with time - Is the Internet a Necessity? I'll accept an argument that given how many business opportunities and communication is done online these days, that it is, but was it 10 years ago or 20? I remember when I got my first Dial-up connection in around the year 2000, I'd had a PC for nearly a decade by then - so definitely wasn't a necessity then.

Does a Living Wage include dependents? If so, how many? 1? 2? 3? What about a House? Should it be enough to pay a Mortgage? or just Rent? What about flatting etc? What about a Car? A Cell Phone?

What if someone has a 'Living Wage' but is still living beyond their means - does that oblige the Empoyer to pay them more to fund their Lifestyle, if not, then how is that any different to the example given?

The money for living on the bare basics ran out for her before child related bills were taken into account.
People should be able to pay rent, food, medicals, power, water, transport expenses and have at least a little left to save for retirement etc. The banks and other blood sucking corps do not pay anywhere enough for that.
In effect, what is the difference between slavery where slaves are provided food and accommodation and people not being paid a living wage and just having the allusion of freedom as they can got for a walk around the mall and so on.
isn't capitalism great!!!!
As your your lame how many kids, type of house, lifestyle option arguments. Yes, don't even try to resolve such complexities, just keep those suckers in poverty eh.
Yet more cold, callous, soulless rhetoric from you.

So, I actually entirely agree with you - both because Communism, Marxism and Socialism cannot exist anywhere but more specifically because I'm well aware that most people don't want it.

Above I said I'd expand on your Toenail comment - The average person has no interest in it - we saw that with the UK Election (Boris vs Corbyn) and when polled - the ex-labour voters were clear - they didn't want Corbyn because of his Marxist leanings.

It's the same reason I predict that Trump is going to comfortably win a re-election - because you are quite right that they don't want any form of Marxism. And when the average centre-left voter sees their Democratic candidates caving to the Marxist demands of the angry Mob - they are going 'Wait, what?'

Exactly, so why of why do you post like the USA is on the precipice of falling into socialism when it clearly is not.
Let them die at the voting balet. Easy.

When it comes to the Majority of Protestors - They probably don't know that the BLM fist symbol is the Socialist Revolutionary symbol. They probably aren't aware of the theory that underpins the movement they are aligned with - the KGB had a term for these people 'Useful Idiots' - not a particularly nice term - however there are people who may have well-meant intentions who are easily swayed by a 'Trained Marxist': "You support Social Justice don't you? I mean who would support Social Injustice, right? Afterall, wouldn't everything be better if everyone got what they needed, according to their needs...." And that's how otherwise reasonable people descend into pulling down statues and burning down buildings.

So when the people living in the soviet block when it was seemingly released from communism did the same, they should of stayed home?

Now to get onto your final point - After George Floyd - Immediately after - Every Libertarian, Conservative, Pro-2A, Pro-Law Enforcement channel that I watch all agreed that based on the initial video it was wrong and something needed to be done. How is that devaluing their Grievance?

The problem is that they aren't just protesting - as I've mentioned before - Protest is fine, even if it's protest I disagree with - it's still their right to do so and their right is my right. Rioting, Looting etc. is not Fine. At that moment - Most of the Goodwill that existed went up in smoke (pun fully intended).

But even then, some people were willing to look past the violence based on exceptional circumstances, to hear what was being said - and that is when the calls to 'Defund the Police' were heard, which, considering we know what happens to areas that don't have a police presence, is absolute lunacy.

The majority have valid reasons for protesting, and do so peacefully and legitimately. I think I' missed your solution to the systemic violence within a lot of policing in the USA.

Finally (and yes, this section has been a bit long, but it's important to cover off each aspect of it) We get to the real crux of the issue - What is the biggest threat to Young, Black Americans - it's certainly not the Police. In fact, the biggest threat is one which defunding and removing the Police from certain areas isn't going to alleviate that threat but is going to aggravate it - so what does that tell you about the real motivations of Black Lives Matter?

Again, I don't write off the BLM movement as most of them are not active marxists.
I think the whole de-fund the police thing is being badly twisted by the right for political gain. My understanding is it means that money allocated to social aspects the police have had foisted upon them by Governments left and right wanting to save money would be better allocated to other service providers independent of the police. In other words, let police get on with catching baddies, rather than being forced to be social workers and mental health workers like what the national party made them here in NZ when they emptied out the psychiatric wards. (and for the record, Labor has done shit all to resolve that issue among many other issues they said they would sort out)

[TheDemonLord]

So a small handful of them have Marxist leanings (and I'm not sure that makes them bad people either, it's just another political system). Political systems are kinda like religions, most think they are the only right ones.

Not just Marxist leanings - 'Trained Marxists', and their entire philosophy as stated on their website is full of Marxist rhetoric.

But to your point:

What's wrong with Fascism then, afterall 'It's just another Political System'?

(and just to be clear, I think something is very wrong with Fascism, the same thing that is very wrong with Marxism, which is interesting because all of the Fascists were former Marxists)

Trump is the poster boy for hard right and you are willingly blind to the fact of his ways, as long as he attacks the left you are all good.

That must make you Hard Right then, since earlier when I posted his Policy positions, you didn't find any of them egregious in the way that I find the Far-Left Policies Egregious?

Temperamentally, he's not Hard Right either - but this is beside the point - I asked for specific examples and for a definition of what you consider Hard Right - I see they are lacking.

I agree, but like I said right at the start of the Floyd protests, miscreants will always use chaos to their advantage. The do not give a fuck about left, right and such. They just thrive in chaos.
By far and away most of the protesters are protesting peacefully, but you want to assign the acts of a very small minority to the majority, but only when it suits to support your positions I have noticed.

The problem is that those that thrive in chaos, by pure coincidence, subscribe to the exact same political beliefs as the Movement itself.

Just the act of denying black people the right to protest and writing of their valid grievances because 0.5% of "them" riot, burn and pillage. And as mentioned the majority of the miscreants don't give a fuck about what the others are protesting about. I view you as being quite soulless when it comes to branches of humanity that is facing struggle. If anything effects you directly, then wahooo it is off to the races about social standards being upheld. Anything outside of that, you are caviler, cold, callous and in my opinion have a reasonably fascist outlook. I'm entitled to my opinion, and there it is.

How many businesses did I or my fellow Firearm owners burn down when our rights were stripped from us?
How many businesses did I or my fellow Firearm owners loot when our rights were stripped from us?
How many City areas did I or my fellow Firearm owners annex and declare an independant zone when our rights were stripped from us?
How many people did I or my fellow Firearm owners shoot when our rights were stripped from us?

So, I'm applying the same standard I hold myself to, to everyone else. That is the very antithesis of Fascism, both from a theoretical Point of View and from a Practical point of view.

And look - I could accept some small-scale acts here and there, but mass violence on the part of the Rioters whilst chanting Communist Rhetoric

No, just right wing nut jobs fanning the flames of fear. The blue team have some serious cleaning house to do, as they have needed to do for a very long time. They just need to get on with it and stop brushing it under the carpet.

It was created after BLM associates advocated for the Killing of Police and then someone did so.

As for the Police needing to clean house - I agree, to a point, that any functional society must always have adequate checks and balances on the Police. We must however also treat the Police fairly and look at the data - The Washington Post has a database on Fatal Police shootings, something like out of the 1,000 fatal police shootings - only 1 was an unarmed Black Man who wasn't running/resisting arrest.

Is that acceptable? No. 1 is still 1 too many, just like 1,000 people shot and killed by the Police is too many - but we have to factor the sheer number of Police interactions for a country of 350 Million and the fact that a significant proportion of them are armed.

But let's move from the extreme end to the claims of things like Profiling etc.

OK, I think I'm thinking of a different couple, the video I saw had that couple coming out there house with guns and engaging the march where people were not approaching their house at all. For your info, rednecks are not restricted to being right wing, there is more to life than left right politics.

No, that's definitely the video, in order to walk by their house they had to breach a fence and trespass onto private property.

Yes, by all means just write it all off as inconsequential as it is not supportive of your narrative.
I look forward to your I don't care attitude if the dems were to pull the same stunts and have the Biden team actively work with the russians.

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In my statement, I all but confirm the Democrats have been doing it since the 1940s and that I don't care.

Really, The "WHOLE" education system is marxist? What a knob.

From the Stats we have - it's something like there are single digit percentage of teachers that self-identify as Conservative, whereas it's something like almost 50% self-identify as 'very liberal'. All of my friends that are teachers are extremely left-wing

Now, you might argue that I've just proved it's not the whole education system - however when we look at things like Curriculum and that number skews even harder to the left, that comes down from the Administrative side, that's is where things get interesting. Let's start with something simple: The omission of just how bad the Soviet Union was, all the way to:

https://www.google.com/search?client...hing+curricula

I have heard the name is passing, but do not really know who George Soros is and no time to look, so fire away with impunity from ridicule from me.

If ever there's a lefty group doing something - it's invariably linked in someway to George Soros - he's like the Right-wing version of the Boogeyman, some of it is earned, some of it is conjecture, some of it is BS. We'll move on from that if you are happy to.

This is an excellent example of your caviler soulless approach. Condemn and move on.

At what point then does someone not have to take responsibility for their actions? If it's soulless to say "Your actions directly contributed to the situation you now find yourself in", then fine - I'm soulless - This is not to say they aren't deserving of Assistance - I'm fine with helping people who want to help themselves.

And Helping doesn't just mean 'Throwing money at the problem'. There's a bazillion ways to upskill yourself - Libraries, the Internet - Hell, I'm currently renovating part of my House - I have had no formal training or education - just watched a boat load of Youtube Tutorials and hoping for the best and so far the Progress has been slow (with a few bumps along the way) but steady.

I have no time for people wallowing in self-pity blaming everything else but themselves for the choices they made.

And I include myself in that group, I've made some pretty stupid decisions in life, with the most recent one costing me approximately $30K - Do I blame others for that? Do I blame the system? Do I decry the inequities of the Universe? Nope - it was my stupid decision and my stupid fault.

If you want to discuss that some decisions have disproportionate affects - like a 5 second lapse of concentration whilst riding results in a lifetime confined to a wheelchair - yeah, that Sucks, the Universe is capricious that way - but we all take the risks and hope

The money for living on the bare basics ran out for her before child related bills were taken into account.

I re-watched it to double check and no, it didn't - in the example given they drive a Minivan - which is more expensive to run than a similar value sub-compact and something that someone without children is unlikely to drive (I didn't get a Minivan until the Wife got Pregnant.... Miss my 2-door Coupe)

The money ran out when they included food, which according to the same source that the Lady was citing is an extra $138 a Month. According the video, absent any other data - those 2 metrics along would have put her in the green by about $150 a Month - Thus for a single person, fresh out of Highschool

By the Metrics you outline below

It IS a Living wage.

But let's take it one step further and say she gets a Flatmate for a 2 bedroom apartment (because now she's not worried about having a stranger around her Kid) - her Rent per month drops from approximately $1,600 a month to about $1,100 a month for each flatmate (that's from Rent Cafe where I believe the speaker sourced their value for an average cost of $1,600 a month)

Which would give our person a net monthly savings of $650 a Month. Which, for the record is more than my net monthly savings.

So why are the Banks still assholes for paying such a generous salary?

People should be able to pay rent, food, medicals, power, water, transport expenses and have at least a little left to save for retirement etc. The banks and other blood sucking corps do not pay anywhere enough for that.

So, if a proportion of people left those areas they couldn't afford to live in left, for cheaper areas, what would happen?

Well, since there is no longer an excess of Labour, the Bank would find it difficult to hire people and so in order to entice workers they would have to pay them more.

Supply and Demand 101.

In effect, what is the difference between slavery where slaves are provided food and accommodation and people not being paid a living wage and just having the allusion of freedom as they can got for a walk around the mall and so on.
isn't capitalism great!!!!

Abso-fucking-lutley it's great.

Because ultimately I have Freedom.

Freedom to succeed
Freedom to fail
Freedom to choose whether or not to ride a Motorbike AND which motorbike I want to ride
Freedom to choose where and how I live
Freedom to choose what career and Job I take
Freedom to say spicy things about Aunty Cindy and her clan of Merry Fuckwits and not worry about being shipped off to the Gulag (for now at least...)

But Freedom to make my own choices and enjoy the fruits or the failures therein.

As your your lame how many kids, type of house, lifestyle option arguments. Yes, don't even try to resolve such complexities, just keep those suckers in poverty eh.
Yet more cold, callous, soulless rhetoric from you.

Not at all, just plain old Maths - The Bank does pay a living wage based on all the criteria you outlined and based on the information given in the presentation if we remove the cost of having a Child, if we then further factor in the savings achieved by Flatting (and sharing the cost of living) then it falls even more.

Exactly, so why of why do you post like the USA is on the precipice of falling into socialism when it clearly is not.
Let them die at the voting balet. Easy.

When they took over an entire city block and it was given tacit blessing by the State's Governor.

And I agree - let them Die at the Ballot Box, which is exactly what my Prediction is - same as in the UK - The question will be what happens after, will they have a period of self-reflection and cast out the radical elements, policies and candidates and return to a more traditional centre-left platform? Or will they double-down and Just carry on as they did before, but louder?

I've said it before (although you may have missed it) If you put Thulsi Gabbard up against Trump, toned down her Environmental policies a bit and kicked the likes of AOC, Illahn Omar, the Spineless State Governors who kowtow to angry mobs etc. out of the DNC - There's a chance someone like me might decide to vote for her over Trump.

I want to let that sink in:

Me: Mr God Emperor of Mankind Donald J Trump, would seriously consider not voting for him.

However, I forsee the DNC sabotaging her career as she is the wrong kind of Democrat and we can't have dissension in the ranks...

So when the people living in the soviet block when it was seemingly released from communism did the same, they should of stayed home?

It turns out that actually experiencing Communism inoculates you against Communism...

The majority have valid reasons for protesting, and do so peacefully and legitimately. I think I' missed your solution to the systemic violence within a lot of policing in the USA.

I disagree with the Systemic part, but as I said - I'll hear about ways to improve training, I'll hear about more research into non-lethal options, I'll hear about Fitness standards and psych evaluations at regular intervals, I'll hear about ways to penetrate the Blue Wall when something IS wrong.

But that isn't what is being asked for.

Again, I don't write off the BLM movement as most of them are not active marxists.
I think the whole de-fund the police thing is being badly twisted by the right for political gain. My understanding is it means that money allocated to social aspects the police have had foisted upon them by Governments left and right wanting to save money would be better allocated to other service providers independent of the police.

That's fair, but I do. Because I've seen this cycle in other areas before, both historically and first-hand. The fact the Leadership are Marxists and the Organisation espouse multiple Marxist talking points, I don't trust it for one millisecond.

As for the De-Fund thing - If that is what is being touted - then why call it De-funding the Police? Why not put a positive spin on it and talk about investing in Mental Health?

Because revolutionaries always seek to destroy what already exists rather than create their own

Jordan Peterson has done many multi-hour lectures on this - so I'll try to condense it down: By the Language they use, By the actions they take, By the Ideas they advance - it all stems from a jealous desire to destroy something, as opposed from an Altruistic desire to build something up - I've seen where that jealous end-up, time and time again.

In other words, let police get on with catching baddies, rather than being forced to be social workers and mental health workers like what the national party made them here in NZ when they emptied out the psychiatric wards. (and for the record, Labor has done shit all to resolve that issue among many other issues they said they would sort out)

Let's talk about this for a second - The state of Mental Health in this country (and the UK and the US) is a shambles. And I completely agree - every side of the debate has done a piss-poor job of addressing it.

If the discussion was 'How do we build or rebuild our Mental Health services so that we are able to meet the needs of the Community' - then I'd be onboard with that discussion.

[TheDemonLord]

To add to the discussion about Kyle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvyrJ6lkCXQ&t=3795s


I've referenced Viva Frei as a Legal source on YT as generally presenting a fact-based legal opinion on popular legal issues - that is the Discussion he has about the Kyle shooting.

[sugilite:Me]

A lot of quotes!!!

Hello, you have reached me at a time where I have no time left to argue.
I could definitely carry on arguing if I just had time - which I don't as for me posting on KB is not paid meditation sessions

[sugilite:Me]

"We just have no idea who is behind these attacks" says GCSB Minister Andrew Little. We have our top guy Mr D Lord on it, but so far we have no confirmed suspects other than every Marxist and Socialist on the planet. "Mr Lord is constantly typing away at the keyboard all day, so we are confidant his hard work will soon yield some meaningful results" Mr Little went on to say

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122...attacks-on-nzx

[TheDemonLord]

"We just have no idea who is behind these attacks" says GCSB Minister Andrew Little. We have our top guy Mr D Lord on it, but so far we have no confirmed suspects other than every Marxist and Socialist on the planet. "Mr Lord is constantly typing away at the keyboard all day, so we are confidant his hard work will soon yield some meaningful results" Mr Little went on to say

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122...attacks-on-nzx

Funny story actually - I've met Andrew Little and had a long-form chat with him and my company also experienced a large surge of Spam and DDOS attacks last week - including one exceptionally sneaky one that fooled me for a while.

So, whilst that post did elicit a hearty chuckle - it's not entirely as far-fetched as you'd have thought.

although one point of contention - The main motivator for these bouts of attacks appears to be Financial - which tends to rule out the Marxists and Socialists :P