The journey that COVID-19 will take us on

**Kendog** · 24th January 2022, 15:21

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

That's a bit of a different issue.

Let's look at some hilarious gotchas:

When even Politifact has to acknowledge Trump has been pro-vaccine

'Fact checkers' in May 2020 say Trump is wrong about the Vaccine being ready by the end of the year

Trump saying in March 2020 that there will be a Vaccine by the end of the Year, Fauci being wrong

More Left wing 'debunking' by 'fact checkers' that Trump saying there'll be a Vaccine by the end of 2020

CNN being wrong as above - note the date, 2nd of March

I am so grateful for this opportunity to post some Trump Wins.

Trump wins 🤣
It’s hard to see any positives from such a powerful country and leader, when they are in the top 20 for deaths per million population.
The Covid denial (China virus, political hoax, no worse than the flu, vanish by itself) by Trump sent the country on a very bad path.

But keep posting about things he got right, cause surely they are more important than what he got wrong. Maybe the family’s of the near 900,000 dead will be happy with your research.

**TheDemonLord** · 24th January 2022, 16:00

Originally Posted by Kendog

Trump wins 🤣
It’s hard to see any positives from such a powerful country and leader, when they are in the top 20 for deaths per million population.
The Covid denial (China virus, political hoax, no worse than the flu, vanish by itself) by Trump sent the country on a very bad path.

But keep posting about things he got right, cause surely they are more important than what he got wrong. Maybe the family’s of the near 900,000 dead will be happy with your research.

The China virus wasn't a lie. Then there was the Lab Leak that first was a Trump lie, then (mysteriously) when Biden came to power, it was true...

Personally, I'd have preferred to retain the Freedoms like certain States, than what we have here in Jacindastan.

However, more than any Trump action or inaction - the evidence seems clear that having certain pre-existing Health issues (such as Morbid Obesity) drastically increases your chances of Death.

Was it Trump's fault that the US is one of the most Obese nations? or Asthmatic?

**Kendog** · 24th January 2022, 17:55

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

The China virus wasn't a lie. Then there was the Lab Leak that first was a Trump lie, then (mysteriously) when Biden came to power, it was true...

Personally, I'd have preferred to retain the Freedoms like certain States, than what we have here in Jacindastan.

However, more than any Trump action or inaction - the evidence seems clear that having certain pre-existing Health issues (such as Morbid Obesity) drastically increases your chances of Death.

Was it Trump's fault that the US is one of the most Obese nations? or Asthmatic?

Feel free to move over there

**pritch** · 24th January 2022, 20:19

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

That's a bit of a different issue.

Trump had absolutely nothing to do with the first vaccine. The vaccine originated in Germany and Pfizer accepted no money from his operation Warp Speed other than for distribution.

**TheDemonLord** · 25th January 2022, 07:16

Originally Posted by pritch

Trump had absolutely nothing to do with the first vaccine. The vaccine originated in Germany and Pfizer accepted no money from his operation Warp Speed other than for distribution.

'Other than for distribution'

So you mean the millions of dollars in pre-orders?
And we know (regardless of what any company says) that pre-order sales are used for development.

**TheDemonLord** · 25th January 2022, 07:19

Originally Posted by Kendog

Feel free to move over there

My preference would be that Jacinda gets booted out and a government that understands and respects natural Rights comes in.

But it is something I've considered.

**pete376403** · 25th January 2022, 07:34

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

My preference would be that Jacinda gets booted out and a government that understands and respects natural Rights comes in.

But it is something I've considered.

Natural rights? There are no rights in nature other than kill or be killed, eat or be eaten. Are you referring to the "rights" of white, european "christians" as in Magna Carta, etc?

**TheDemonLord** · 25th January 2022, 08:25

Originally Posted by pete376403

Natural rights? There are no rights in nature other than kill or be killed, eat or be eaten. Are you referring to the "rights" of white, european "christians" as in Magna Carta, etc?

Does an Animal need permission from the State to move? Or to bark/howl? Or to defend itself?

I'm referring to the rights that you are currently exercising, the ones that underpin our entire civilization.

But sure, go ahead and undermine them if you want, just don't come crying to me when it backfires.

**pete376403** · 25th January 2022, 13:14

Backfiring pretty well, considering. The bastions of personal freedom are looking at lot worse than here.

Covid Deaths / million: USA 2590; England 2274; Australia 112; NZ 10

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...n-inhabitants/

**TheDemonLord** · 25th January 2022, 14:12

Originally Posted by pete376403

Backfiring pretty well, considering. The bastions of personal freedom are looking at lot worse than here.

That depends on your perspective.

I happen to hold that certain freedoms are worth the price, in blood, that we pay for them.

Take driving for example - when you get on your bike or in your car, you are accepting that you may be killed in an accident or worse - you may kill someone else. But the freedom being able to ride/drive is so great that we accept the cost.

If someone was to take away your ability to drive/ride, based on the statement 'we are saving lives', would you be happily handing over your keys? I doubt that.

That's before we get to the unintended consequences of Lockdowns, Mask Mandates etc.

**FJRider** · 25th January 2022, 14:37

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

My preference would be that Jacinda gets booted out and a government that understands and respects natural Rights comes in.

According to the natural law theory ... all people have inherent rights. Conferred not by act of legislation ... but given by "God, nature, or reason."

If your belief that the "Right" is by God ... then you must be be seen to believe that there is a God. If you don't believe there is a god ... it can't be a God given right.

Natural rights given in Nature ... are basically in regard for your own survival. Your main point of interest as such is ... who's food chain are you part of .. ??

As for Reason ... It has been argued that because human beings have reason ... and because reason is a spark of the divine (see image of God) ... all human lives are sacred and of infinite value compared to any created object (Tell that to the Vegetarian's). Meaning all humans are (supposedly) fundamentally equal ... and bestowed with an intrinsic basic set of rights that no human can remove. The downside to this part is ... no two humans can agree to what those rights actually are. Or those right will remain the same as the ages pass.

Reason (by definition) is a cause ... explanation ... or a justification for an action (or event).

Justification (by Definition)

1.The action of showing something to be right or reasonable. Usually done in a Court of Law or recognized (as such) in the current Law of the country you are in.

2. Theology ... the action of declaring or making right in the sight of God. Difficult to do if you don't believe there is a God.

**Berries** · 25th January 2022, 16:08

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

Take driving for example - when you get on your bike or in your car, you are accepting that you may be killed in an accident or worse - you may kill someone else. But the freedom being able to ride/drive is so great that we accept the cost.

If someone was to take away your ability to drive/ride, based on the statement 'we are saving lives', would you be happily handing over your keys?

Good summary of the Road to Zero policy.

**TheDemonLord** · 25th January 2022, 16:20

Originally Posted by FJRider

According to the natural law theory ... all people have inherent rights. Conferred not by act of legislation ... but given by "God, nature, or reason."

If your belief that the "Right" is by God ... then you must be be seen to believe that there is a God. If you don't believe there is a god ... it can't be a God given right.

Natural rights given in Nature ... are basically in regard for your own survival. Your main point of interest as such is ... who's food chain are you part of .. ??

As for Reason ... It has been argued that because human beings have reason ... and because reason is a spark of the divine (see image of God) ... all human lives are sacred and of infinite value compared to any created object (Tell that to the Vegetarian's). Meaning all humans are (supposedly) fundamentally equal ... and bestowed with an intrinsic basic set of rights that no human can remove. The downside to this part is ... no two humans can agree to what those rights actually are. Or those right will remain the same as the ages pass.

Reason (by definition) is a cause ... explanation ... or a justification for an action (or event).

Justification (by Definition)

1.The action of showing something to be right or reasonable. Usually done in a Court of Law or recognized (as such) in the current Law of the country you are in.

2. Theology ... the action of declaring or making right in the sight of God. Difficult to do if you don't believe there is a God.

Certainly the concepts of Rights had it's origins in Protestant Christianity - which is the 'God Given' part, however, you note that I use the phrase 'Natural rights', because I'm an Atheist - The right to own the fruits of my Labour, the Right to move, the right to Speak and think, the right to defend myself and the Right to bodily autonomy - all of those are not hinged on the concept of a Deity.

The spark of Divinity is slightly harder for the Atheist, but I can say that you, as the individual, have an intrinsic value. The same intrinsic value that I have - and so any affront to you, is the possibility of an affront to me. I am therefore motivated to uphold your rights, because in doing so - I'm upholding my own. Or to use the ancient maxim: 'Treat others as you wish to be treated'.

So you can articulate a moral basis for the concept of Natural rights, without an appeal to God.

**TheDemonLord** · 25th January 2022, 16:23

Originally Posted by Berries

Good summary of the Road to Zero policy.

Indeed.

One might say that this Government is only too happy to Ban things on the claim that they are saving lives.

One might further say that this is the hallmark of Bureaucratic Dictators who think they can build the perfect society if they just force everyone to do as they say.