Beehive occupation.

[Stylo]

Read which part of your comment I specifically cut out and quoted.

You'll note there's no mention of shitting in any Lawns in that bit.

I'll refresh you memory:

- Disruption (Government definitely caused a lot of that
- Making Kids cry (School Mask Mandates and the stunting of language and emotional development due to mask wearing by adults)
- Businesses who've lost money and everything.

Those are definitely all things that the Government have done and in far greater amounts than anything the Protestors have done.



Honestly, shit on the lawns is one of the least objectionable things to come out of the Beehive in recent times - but regardless - here's the ultimate question:

Are you okay with Mandates? And to be clear we mean forcing one group to do something they don't want to do on pain of a Fine or being excluded from areas/services?

If the answer is No, then you should write to your MP, tell them you don't like what the protestors are doing but you think that the Mandates are wrong and they should get rid of them in order to get the Protestors to go away.

If the answer is Yes, that you're fine with one group using force against another - then you've got no leg to stand on to complain about what the Protestors are doing.

So which is it?

Here's my 5 cents.

If you don't like the 'mandate' . ignore it and do what you think is best . Join the protests. ignore the people that have been displaced and the kids that are too scared to go to school now.

i don't do idiots lightly. Difficult to argue with a clever person. To argue with someone stupid is impossible. Give me a fucking break.

[Berries]

To show a bit of solidarity I just shat on my neighbours lawn.


I felt like Citizen Smith.

[mashman]

Or ... the virus affects different people ... differently. I am glad you survived.

That you DID survive could mean it did work. It was supposed to be a killer virus after all.

Having said that though ... most of those that died from the virus had underlying medical conditions ... that were actual the cause of the death. Conditions ... some didn't know they had.

The protest isn't over yet. SO ... Don't give up yet.

What have you got to lose .. ??

I have mixed feelings about how the whole debacle turned out, but hey, there was no pandemic at the time. Indeed, it kills some people and gives others a mild headache whether they have underlying conditions or not. It's almost as though those who die have compromised immune systems and those who don't, don't, irrespective of underlying condition. Quick, stab everyone.

I'm not too fussed at what I have to lose... but I've met more people who've been injured by the vaccine than I have who have had covid. Kind of concerning to be fair. Some people are very much in the position of livelihood or health. They have everything to lose. Fortunately they've got a minority fighting for them since the majority will drop them like a sack of shit for not fucking their health up further and getting the booster.

[Kickaha]

but I've met more people who've been injured by the vaccine than I have who have had covid.

I wonder why you've not met many people who've had covid, must be a reason for that somewhere

[F5 Dave]

He or they are making shit up. Of non trolls, who has actually met someone injured by vaccine? I mean aside from a sore arm for a day?

Exactly.

[TheDemonLord]

ignore the people that have been displaced and the kids that are too scared to go to school now.

See my previous point about the scale of what the Government has done vs the scale of what the protestors have done. And yes, people have lost jobs/businesses/been displaced, Kids have been scarred of 'The deadly virus'.

And on a side note - last I checked, it was a University Campus that was impacted by the Protests. Not exactly Kids (although... I'll hear the argument about infantile Uni Students...)

Tell you what, since I'm a charitable type of chap, here's the deal: When the protestors have inconvenienced Wellington for as long as the Government had the country in Lockdown, then I'll agree that it's time for the protestors to move on.

i don't do idiots lightly. Difficult to argue with a clever person. To argue with someone stupid is impossible. Give me a fucking break.

That doesn't answer the question - and neither did your first retort:

Do you agree with using force to compel others to your will? If you don't, then as much as you may dislike the protestors, write to your local MP. I wrote to mine and Saint Seymour went and talked to them.

If you think that using force to compel others is fine, then you've got no moral basis for being upset at the protestors.

[TheDemonLord]

He or they are making shit up. Of non trolls, who has actually met someone injured by vaccine? I mean aside from a sore arm for a day?

Exactly.

Regardless of whether we personally know someone, all Vaccines have side-effects. Some of which can be serious, to the point of Death.

We know this, we should be honest about this fact. The above kind of rhetoric is fundamentally dishonest.

Granted, the rate is very low, but to dismiss someone as making shit up for something we know that can and does happen isn't right.

[pritch]

but I've met more people who've been injured by the vaccine than I have who have had covid.

Very little of what you write seems real. That though is competely unbelievable. Unless you only know a couple of people.

Almost everybody I know is vaccinated. Three people I know locally are anti, and one in the far north. Nobody I know has a had a reaction to the vaccine much less an "injury".

[TheDemonLord]

Maybe ... And ... I could be right.

Both of you say the same thing and both of you present the same evidence for being right.

Occams razor suggests you're both wrong.

It was allowed in law. So it could be argued it WAS right ... at the time. At least legal. As was Homosexuality. Times and attitudes change.

Regarding the vaccine policy ... they haven't changed yet. So keep trying. You have that right.

YOU can't speak for me ... and tell me what my rights and morals are ... or should be.

YOUR "Rights and Morals" are yours ... you can't force them ... on me. Especially the one's laid down IN LAW.

So, as a hypothetical then, if someone captured you and took you to a country where Slavery was legal and forced you to work as a Slave - that would be Right? Especially if their Rights and Morals said it was fine?

We both know that you would think that an injustice was being done to you. The reason you think that is because you (along with just about everyone else on the planet) has a sense of Bodily Autonomy.

From that ethic, comes the condemnation of any medical intervention, no matter how safe or how noble, if it violates a persons consent. It doesn't matter if it's injecting a vaccine or drinking a glass of Water - the Principle is the same.

So which is - would it be fine for you to be a Slave or do you want to admit that there's a moral and ethical underpinning that says this is wrong on an absolute level.

Your compulsion to argue is immoral ... ?? I might agree ...

Nope, because my arguments stop before your ears/eyes begin

I knew there was a bit missing off your head.

Au Contraire, it's full of long flowing blond locks.

So ... what was proven right ... that you've argued for ... lately ... ??

The Severity of Covid, especially Omicron, the efficacy of Lockdowns, the immorality of Mandates, the fact that this is one big over-reaction and we are going to paying for it (not just financially) for many years, That Jacinda is a little authoritarian wannabe socialist dictator who doesn't give a flying fuck about individual rights, liberties and freedoms.

Downtown Berlin wasn't "Elsewhere" ...

And some journalists were sued on a regular basis. Some journalists that were in Berlin in 1945 ... were jailed for not following policy.

Good luck finding stuff they wrote though.

Free speech isn't all it's cracked up to be.

As above ... Free speech isn't all it's cracked up to be. You can STILL be jailed ... for saying/writing things that can be regarded as offensive.

If they were Jailed, then that shows my point - traditionally Journalism wasn't solely repeating the Government line. The last great bit of investigative journalism IMO is/was Andrew Norfolks work in 2011 on the Rotherham scandal.

[nerrrd]

How far out can they call a snap election and would that be enough to satisfy these people?

[mashman]

I wonder why you've not met many people who've had covid, must be a reason for that somewhere

lol... nice observation. I Am including those I know from overseas. Those I know directly. Those very very very few I know directly. Yes, there are very few of them, which makes the whole thing even more silly. 1 dead within 48hrs. 3 family members who've had it, 2 jabbed, 1 jabbed had it far worse than the other 2. In NZ, 1 with pericarditis after both jabs (still going for the booster so as to keep job they love), 1 double jabbed living and working through debilitating episodes of breathlessness and fatigue (not having the booster and kissing a job they love goodbye). I know the majority of people I socialise with are jabbed, ok, and highly unlikely to have Covid at the moment. 1 of my daughters is considering the booster v job thing (the booster will inevitably win) despite a couple of stories she's heard in her circles. Obviously, as you point out, not coronavirus related.

[mashman]

Very little of what you write seems real. That though is competely unbelievable. Unless you only know a couple of people.

Almost everybody I know is vaccinated. Three people I know locally are anti, and one in the far north. Nobody I know has a had a reaction to the vaccine much less an "injury".

... Ahhhh, so you're the keeper of my reality. Thanks for finally showing up and telling me that the suffering isn't real... simply so that you can live with the bitter and fucked up reveling in the misery of others that you have displayed to date, whilst pretending that you're a good man. Whatever helps you sleep at night bud.

[jellywrestler]

Very little of what you write seems real. That though is competely unbelievable. Unless you only know a couple of people.

Almost everybody I know is vaccinated. Three people I know locally are anti, and one in the far north. Nobody I know has a had a reaction to the vaccine much less an "injury".

I was pretty flyblown for a couple of days after my second, in bed for 1 out of every two hours, i can only imagine what it would be like if i got the proper thing, my body was using it's energy to fight it the right way, it was working and working well. don't regret it a minute and i thank my mother for her taking me to get vaccines when i was young. I'm 59 and about to get the shingles vaccine as i sure as shit don't want that. how do all these people get on down at parliament when they eat KFC from a secret recipe I wonder?

[jellywrestler]

How far out can they call a snap election and would that be enough to satisfy these people?

and you think the other side is a knight in shining armour?

[pete376403]

On Friday, Police Commissioner Andrew Coster announced the Police would not pursue any enforcement action against protestors despite the protest site growing by the day.
He also backtracked on an earlier pledge to start towing vehicles from occupied streets around Parliament, saying that would only escalate tensions.

"We needed to explore the option of that and test what the reaction would be. That approach would have been provocative and unhelpful."

Coster instead said a traffic management plan, coupled with de-escalation tactics, would be the police focus."

AKA "Peace in our time" - look how well that worked last time (a declaration made by British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain in his 30 September 1938 remarks in London concerning the Munich Agreement and the subsequent Anglo-German Declaration.). Ohh, have I invoked Godwins?