Trump - 4 more years of this at least...

[TheDemonLord]

Just found it. 1 boat hit them with prop spray. So, I guess..... Good people on Both Sides???

Or.....maybe, it is just not permitted, to shout the quiet part out loud!

Now post the link of trump (and/or family) denouncing the American Nazi's.

My invested and informed opinion......MAGA = NAZI.

Correction: OK! Some of them are Billionaires....and Many, many are just Morons. (Check your bank balance, if you are not sure which one you are!)

...

Hold up - we have gone from no one stopped them, to video footage of people trying to stop them (other reports I saw on the event indicated that other boaties tried to prevent them from taking part - but there was not footage of that).

I want to pause here - the initial tweet you cited was, objectively, a Lie.

So let me ask you this: Why do you believe the side that has to lie to you?

Let us put aside for a moment what you think of MAGA and ask the simple question: If it was as bad as claimed, why the need to lie?

I will grant you a modicum of both sides lie and exaggerate all the time - but on this, I think we have exceeded the threshold of acceptable puffery.

Now onto Maga being Nazi - Interesting take.

Especially when it is the Democrats that are openly engaging in antisemitic rhetoric (although to be fair, Marx was not too fond of the Jews and all the Fascists were former Socialists so...)

[pete376403]

So let me ask you this: Why do you believe the side that has to lie to you?

Let us put aside for a moment what you think of MAGA and ask the simple question: If it was as bad as claimed, why the need to lie?

I will grant you a modicum of both sides lie and exaggerate all the time - but on this, I think we have exceeded the threshold of acceptable puffery.

Do you apply the same standard to statements by trump? There is any amount of documents evidence that he constantly lies

[TheDemonLord]

Do you apply the same standard to statements by trump? There is any amount of documents evidence that he constantly lies

Depends what you mean by Lies.

Trump Exaggerates.

He went for a walk: It was a great walk, a Great American Walk, Perhaps the greatest walk ever in this big beautiful America, I love this place - it is the greatest country in the world (etc.).

Calling these 'Lies' is overegging the pudding. When ever you see 'Fact Checkers' who 'debunk' Trump speeches - you will see a lot of this:

He said it was the greatest economy, well in 1953 the economy was better so this is FAAAAAALLLLLLSSSSEEEEE.

To be clear - I draw a distinction between Trumps use of hyperbole and exaggeration (both of which can be attributed to his New York roots) and actual lies.

Now, to answer your question, even if you accept the above distinction, Trump - as a Politician - still Lies. My own beloved David Seymour, as a politician - still lies.

The baseline is not very high.

With that established - I now want to make a comparison - When Trump lies, what is the main thrust of his lying? To sum up - I would say that his accomplishments are the best. You can make a sound argue around egotism on that point - but I think deeper than that is Trump himself believes, to a degree what he is saying - and that the lie is aspirational.

What I mean by that last part is that if you tell someone something is impossible, they won't attempt it. If they believe it is possible (e.g. you have lied to them to say it is) - History has shown many times over that self-belief can bridge that gap.

Thus telling people America is the greatest country in the world or any of the myriad of other Trumpisms - I do not consider to be as bad.

Now I want to compare to two examples:

Joe Bidens mental health and the BLM Riots.

We had multiple instances of Joe being clearly cognitively impaired, for months and months (even years) - and yet this was routinely decried as some right-wing conspiracy and we were repeatedly assured (by multiple news outlets no-less) that Joe Biden was 'As sharp as a Tack' (curious how they all used the exact same verbiage...)

Then came the debate - What we got was a muddled old man who could not think straight.

Is that lie Aspirational? Is that Lie trying to encourage people to achieve greatness that they don't think is possible - or is that Lie one designed to make you not believe the reality you can clearly see.

The BLM riots - the best example was the image of a burning building in the background whilst a reporter was trying to convince you that it was a 'mostly peaceful protest' - Again - is this Lie something that is trying to build others up or is it a Lie that is trying to stop you being angry at something clearly wrong?

To conclude: I put it to you that most of what the Media calls Trump lies are more accurate to describe as mannerisms, but even if you accept that, yes - he still lies like all politicians do. JBP had a great quote which I can never find to attribute correctly - but it goes something like: "Trumps boasting was more palatable than Hillary's deliberate deception"

And that is what it comes down to.

[Pursang]

...
Wow! The trump weave is catching on!

Depends what you mean by Lies.............And that is what it comes down to.

LIES are LIES are LIES!

Actually, In this case, It comes down to whatever You are prepared to ignore, forgive, justify, deflect, deny, etc, in order to attempt to maintain your socio/political and financial philosophies.

LIE: 'They're eating the cats...they're eating the dogs....they're eating the pets, of the people that live there!'

LIE: 'Import tariffs are paid by the "other" countries'

LIE: 'Kamala Harris is retarded, stupid, unqualified to be a US President.'

LIE 'I didn't say that!...Did I say that?'


One more LIE from his 'team': trump doing his 'wobbly dance' and muttering to himself, on stage for 38 minutes, was actually a 'love-fest'.

[TheDemonLord]

...
Wow! The trump weave is catching on!

LIES are LIES are LIES!

Are they?

Let me reference the classic joke as to what the correct response in when your spouse asks if her bum looks big in something.

If you hear a kid practicing an Instrument, they are terrible, but they are clearly trying to improve - do you tell them that they are doing great or do you tell them that they sound bad. One is clearly a Lie, one is clearly not.

And Trump saying everything is the biggest, best, greatest etc. is more his way of speaking than anything else.

LIE: 'They're eating the cats...they're eating the dogs....they're eating the pets, of the people that live there!'

This one is interesting. I have seen some anecdotal reports from those areas (Not in Newspapers, mind) of people saying that certain communities have different culinary preferences.

And I want to just focus on this for a second - In my local Park we have Ducks, Geese and Eels. All of which have various cuisine associated with them. For the sake of argument though, I am going to just talk about Ducks.

We have a Duck hunting season in NZ, yet the same people that would hunt ducks for food - would not think to go into a public park and get a Duck to eat.

Other cultures do not have such a concept of a public park or that animals in a public park are not valid food sources.

Is it so far-fetched to think that some people who are used to catching wild animals anywhere (because that is their culture) would not look at an anglosphere public park (or even pets) and think 'There is just free food lying around here!'

Then I have to ask where did this come from - it is an awfully specific accusation, not the sort of thing one would just make up on the spot - Which makes me think that people have observed odd behavior and reported it, getting frustrated no one is listening and sending it out to any and all who will listen.

I want to end this rebuttal with a transcript of a call made to the Springfield Police:

“I’m sitting here, I’m riding on the trail, I’m going to my orientation for my job today, and I see a group of Haitian people, there was about four of ’em, they all had geese in their hands,”

So, is it a Lie? It seems to me that there are elements of this that are true or at the very least - plausible and supported by anecdotal evidence.

LIE: 'Import tariffs are paid by the "other" countries'

Yeah, this one is a fair critique. I dont entirely disagree with Trumps protectionist policies (especially when other countries are not beholden to the same level of compliance costs as the US), but this one is simply economically wrong.

LIE: 'Kamala Harris is retarded, stupid, unqualified to be a US President.'

Given the last 4 years, I would say this one is absolutely true.

LIE 'I didn't say that!...Did I say that?'

Need more context.

And so of the 4 examples - One I grant you, One I disagree with, One has elements of it which are either true or plausible (supported by eye witness police reports) and one needs more information.

If I were to do the inverse now - and give you 4 Trump statements I consider to be true and factual - would you be as charitable?

[Dean]

Trump turned up an hour late to one of his speeches then just stood there on stage for almost forty minutes. Just standing, not speaking. Nothing unusual there then.

I await the various creative explanations with breathless anticipation.

Cool story.

[Laava]

This made me laugh today.

[Pursang]

Are they?...........

It comes down to whatever You are prepared to ignore, forgive, justify, deflect, deny, etc, in order to attempt to maintain your socio/political and financial philosophies.

[1/32 man]

Depends what you mean by Lies.

Trump Exaggerates.

Dont forget about the alternative facts.

I can only hope for the sake of the free and rational world that trump gets slaughtered in the election.

I believe in karma.

[TheDemonLord]

Dont forget about the alternative facts.

I can only hope for the sake of the free and rational world that trump gets slaughtered in the election.

I believe in karma.

Are these the Alternative facts that in ~18 months turn out to be true?

[TheDemonLord]

It comes down to whatever You are prepared to ignore, forgive, justify, deflect, deny, etc, in order to attempt to maintain your socio/political and financial philosophies.

Does that not equally apply to you then?

This started because of a single picture and a lie and an accusation - I pointed out that it omitted several key events which drastically change the interpretation.

Which you seem to ignore, forgive, justify, deflect, deny, etc, in order to attempt to maintain your belief that Trump and Maga are akin to Nazis.

[pete376403]

Does that not equally apply to you then?

This started because of a single picture and a lie and an accusation - I pointed out that it omitted several key events which drastically change the interpretation.

Which you seem to ignore, forgive, justify, deflect, deny, etc, in order to attempt to maintain your belief that Trump and Maga are akin to Nazis.

Several? There was one clip of a boat showering the nazi boat with water. Other events may or may not have occurred, but as these fit your narrative, they are now facts. Without evidence they become opinions. And so we go around again

[pritch]

Cool story.

Life must be so much more comfortable if you can just ignore reality.

[TheDemonLord]

Several? There was one clip of a boat showering the nazi boat with water. Other events may or may not have occurred, but as these fit your narrative, they are now facts. Without evidence they become opinions. And so we go around again

Yes, there was one video, sure.

There were other eye witness reports that indicated they were not allowed to be a part.

However, let us focus on the one thing we both agree on - that a boat did something to actively dissuade the Nazi boat.

The original post was that if no one stops the Nazi Boat, you are at a Nazi Rally (paraphrased).

Since we know that someone did, in fact, try to stop the Nazi Boat, the subsequent conclusion is false.

(This is the classic logical Form)

However - did Pursang walk back his view that Maga = Nazi?

People often accuse me of having a narrative and being selective with interpretation, however when they engage in the same (and to a more egregious extent) the silence is deafening.

[Pursang]

.............However - did Pursang walk back his view that Maga = Nazi?...........

Wow!.....a repost of someones memey online comment re: NAZI's attending a trump event certainly was a huge 'Trigger Point'!

TheDemonLord doth protest too much, methinks! Really? IS that All you have?
This is your best defense of your choice of the increasingly demented, medically compromised and raving, convicted criminal for US President?

You are certainly Not convincing me!

But, forget the original triggering post (if you can), my take on the incident is as follows:

If Nazis in Full Regalia think that your MAGA event is an appropriate venue to publicly demonstrate their enthusiastic support,
and following that, you don't make a public statement to denounce that movement, then MAGA = NAZI.