RUC's for all road vehicles, this will be fun.

[sugilite:Me]

All of that sounds great, if it can be implemented properly.

My natural scepticism has me questioning how easy it’ll be for such a data heavy solution to maintain a consistent level of accuracy (garbage in, garbage out), how competent the GPS installers messing around with your vehicle turn out to be, and what happens if the contractors don’t underquote as such, but promise a level of service that (it turns out, having not been done before) they’re not able to deliver.

Cheers for the feedback. You are of course correct, it is data heavy compared to the current system. The main thing is all the tech and software requirements already exist and any modern solution one could use will be data heavy so to speak - well at least for goods vehicles - not really the data itself, more the careful set up and integration that would be required at start up. Cars and bikes data would be super light with most of the info being stripped before the transponder transmits. The way I suggest is about the most streamlined it could reasonably be (I feel). The transponders would just need power, and any workshop accredited to do wofs/cofs should be able to handle installation with ease. With IOTA being immutable (third parties cannot hack) any weight fudging at the point of data entry would soon be exposed by the freight companies. Because the tech and software already exists for this type of operation, any company worth their salt should be able to stick to the contract requirements, though I completely understand your reservations based on past roading contracts turning to over budget custard in NZ.

[FLUB]

Not sure if anyone has seen it but the AA are considering bikes for a change. In the Otago Times the AA has poked holes in the proposal because road damage is not done by cars, even heavier EVs, but by 8 ton plus trucks.

The AA Principle Policy Advisor, Terry Collins, goes on to say "changes should also be made to motorbike registrations as motorcyclists often owned several bikes, but could only ride one at a time yet made multiple ACC contributions when not on the road. By going to a distance based system it will be a much fairer way for them to make their contribution. So we think that would be a very good outcome".

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[neels]

The AA Principle Policy Advisor, Terry Collins, goes on to say "changes should also be made to motorbike registrations as motorcyclists often owned several bikes, but could only ride one at a time yet made multiple ACC contributions when not on the road. By going to a distance based system it will be a much fairer way for them to make their contribution. So we think that would be a very good outcome"

I think that argument has been made before, and the answer was that the ACC levy would increase per person, at present someone with multiple bikes that are licenced is effectively subsidising someone with only one bike, with the levy being based on total cost/x

In a discussion over the weekend a similar point was made with RUCs for people with multiple vehicles that are infrequently used, from the perspective of not wanting to end up with unused RUC distance on a vehicle that's sitting in the garage, and if the RUC could be applied to a person and used against whichever vehicle they were driving at the time. Or perhaps use the wife's car, so she gets the bill, if they move to a post-paid model.

[jellywrestler]

Not sure if anyone has seen it but the AA are considering bikes for a change. In the Otago Times the AA has poked holes in the proposal because road damage is not done by cars, even heavier EVs, but by 8 ton plus trucks.

by their presence they are using the road and often roads need making bigger to accomadate them so the money is to fund roading projects, as well as repairs.
As for only riding one bike at a time, why do people even quote that, the neighbour owns three bikes, i regularly see him his wife and kid out on a ride, with another kid on the back. If you think that's the answer then how will it be that one person registers all the houselhold bikes in one name, and spits that garbage out to anyone and everyone like a vegan crossfitter tells us they are a vegan crossfitter....

[R650R]

i've no idea, but they'll want a system people can't dodge, been driving a deisle for 20 years and cannot recall once RUC's being checked. Electronically will have flexibility, and you can bet they will be have thought this another tool in their toolbox to find unregistered vehicles
Whatever happened to the APNR set ups that popped up a handful of years ago, they came and went pretty quick, they would pick up status of vehicle and registered owner too

Some city councils NZ are now using ANPR cars for parking. They drive around taking photos of wheels in a digital version of tyre chalk to see if you’ve moved. I foresee a new business selling highballs that freespool in breeze of passing traffic

[R650R]

Sugilite that sounds a lot like how it will actually work except blockchain part isn’t needed.

In the last revamp of RUC overseen years ago maybe more the govt realised trucking companies couldn’t be trusted. It was cheaper to ahem accidently under buy the correct weight and just pay fines when actually caught.
So since then you pay RUC based on your maximum gross capacity (GVM).

A lot of Ranger owners will be rethinking that 3 ton towing capacity….

[sugilite:Me]

Sugilite that sounds a lot like how it will actually work except blockchain part isn’t needed.

In the last revamp of RUC overseen years ago maybe more the govt realised trucking companies couldn’t be trusted. It was cheaper to ahem accidently under buy the correct weight and just pay fines when actually caught.
So since then you pay RUC based on your maximum gross capacity (GVM).

A lot of Ranger owners will be rethinking that 3 ton towing capacity….

Thanks for the feedback, gotcha on the blockchain comment, though I thought you would of thought a system charging for the actual weight you have on board would be a fairer way to do it?

National better do the privacy thing, but I suspect they will not as they want to both be nosy and sell everyone's data. And I also doubt they will set the budget for road maintenance to anywhere near where the level it will need to be. Also they want multiple companies with multiple solutions to vie for our business, read price fix and gouge. So actually, I feel the national proposed system and mine are quite far apart.

[Gremlin]

So since then you pay RUC based on your maximum gross capacity (GVM).

A lot of Ranger owners will be rethinking that 3 ton towing capacity….

Yes and no. Are you confusing GVM with GCM? Tow rating doesn't strictly come into GVM, but does work into things like GCM, and all the weights can be a bit variable depending on your current load (people get included in that).

Eg quick Google gave me 2022 Rangers (https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...ad-gvm-and-gcm), and GVM maxed out at 3350kg. The max GVM under WOF is 3500kg - 3501kg is the next RUC class and COF required (plus 90kph speed limit in theory). It's a bit of a thing for me currently, as I want a bigger van, but want to stay within WOF, so I'm limited to 3500kg GVM.

GCM for them tops out around 6400kg. Class 1 allows for up to 6000kg (so you if you want to push the GCM to it's limit of 6400kg, you'd need a class 2). Side note that I don't think we see much enforcement here in Class 1? vs Aussie, where its a bit more common to check you're not exceeding your licence limits...

[R650R]

Yes and no. Are you confusing GVM with GCM? Tow rating doesn't strictly come into GVM, but does work into things like GCM, and all the weights can be a bit variable depending on your current load (people get included in that).

Eg quick Google gave me 2022 Rangers (https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...ad-gvm-and-gcm), and GVM maxed out at 3350kg. The max GVM under WOF is 3500kg - 3501kg is the next RUC class and COF required (plus 90kph speed limit in theory). It's a bit of a thing for me currently, as I want a bigger van, but want to stay within WOF, so I'm limited to 3500kg GVM.

GCM for them tops out around 6400kg. Class 1 allows for up to 6000kg (so you if you want to push the GCM to it's limit of 6400kg, you'd need a class 2). Side note that I don't think we see much enforcement here in Class 1? vs Aussie, where its a bit more common to check you're not exceeding your licence limits...

I need a disclaimer on my signature, sweeping generalisations often used and Billy T style word replacements when I can’t find the correct big word lol
Yep enforcement lacking prob nothing at all to do with how many politicians, policemen and their friends enjoy towing large fishing boats on holiday trips.

[rastuscat]

I think that argument has been made before, and the answer was that the ACC levy would increase per person, at present someone with multiple bikes that are licenced is effectively subsidising someone with only one bike, with the levy being based on total cost/x

In a discussion over the weekend a similar point was made with RUCs for people with multiple vehicles that are infrequently used, from the perspective of not wanting to end up with unused RUC distance on a vehicle that's sitting in the garage, and if the RUC could be applied to a person and used against whichever vehicle they were driving at the time. Or perhaps use the wife's car, so she gets the bill, if they move to a post-paid model.

Yes, we tend to look at it from the point of view of the individual paying, wanting to reduce our personal cost. That's us. But the systems need to recover a certain amount of cost.

In the case of ACC, they aim to recover the cost of motorcycle related injuries. So if individuals pay less, or less individuals pay, the amount the remaining individuals who pay will have to pay more to maintain the overall level of cost recovery.

In the case of RUC, they want to recover the cost of building and maintaining roads. We each want to pay less, e.g. the under 1000 kg exemption suggested. Thing is, if the number of individuals who pay less increases, the overall take will decrease, and then overall rates will have to increase.

It's perfectly normal for individuals to ant to reucde their individual costs. But someone has to pay the collective bill.

The big questions are how to do reduce the overall cost of motorcycle injuries, and how do we reduce the overall cost of building and maintaining roads. That seems to have been lost in the mire.

[sugilite:Me]

The big questions are how to do reduce the overall cost of motorcycle injuries, and how do we reduce the overall cost of building and maintaining roads. That seems to have been lost in the mire.

My feeling is that is is kinda odd that we have a system of laws which mandate helmets for head protection, but ignore that the rest of the body is also vulnerable (and expensive to fix up post accident).
One way to reduce the injuries cost would be to mandate CE approved Gloves, Jackets, Pants and boots be worn too.

After watching the never ending Haywards Hill road debacle going on for near a decade now, it is hard to believe there is not a whole lot more financial efficiency that could not be found in that entire industry.
I do wonder if it would not be a good idea to get the Marsden Point oil refinery back up and running? That way we at least we can provide our own bitumen again to improve the road surface over a wider range of our roads where bitumen would work best?

[BMWST?]

My feeling is that is is kinda odd that we have a system of laws which mandate helmets for head protection, but ignore that the rest of the body is also vulnerable (and expensive to fix up post accident).
One way to reduce the injuries cost would be to mandate CE approved Gloves, Jackets, Pants and boots be worn too.

After watching the never ending Haywards Hill road debacle going on for near a decade now, it is hard to believe there is not a whole lot more financial efficiency that could not be found in that entire industry.
I do wonder if it would not be a good idea to get the Marsden Point oil refinery back up and running? That way we at least we can provide our own bitumen again to improve the road surface over a wider range of our roads where bitumen would work best?

The Haywards Hill is a good example of bd planning or management imho. One of the reasons(if not the reason) was with transmission gulley there was going to be more traffic going over the hill. If that was the case then surely the whole Haywards project should have been finished when transmission gulley was finished. They are now starting to put in 2 new roundabouts there .It seemed to me that that whole job was done "part time"

[jellywrestler]

The Haywards Hill is a good example of bd planning or management imho. One of the reasons(if not the reason) was with transmission gulley there was going to be more traffic going over the hill. If that was the case then surely the whole Haywards project should have been finished when transmission gulley was finished. They are now starting to put in 2 new roundabouts there .It seemed to me that that whole job was done "part time"

6 years so far, when they reinstated the passed lane west to east and all the cheesecutters were up etc the cones sat there for another 2 1/2 weeks, why? seems like they couldn't run a bath. whats worse is at the hutt valley end when the traffic north on the motorway is at a standstill it gridlocks the haywards hill, and also stops southbound traffic in it's tracks, shit design

[SaferRides]

The Haywards Hill is a good example of bd planning or management imho. One of the reasons(if not the reason) was with transmission gulley there was going to be more traffic going over the hill. If that was the case then surely the whole Haywards project should have been finished when transmission gulley was finished. They are now starting to put in 2 new roundabouts there .It seemed to me that that whole job was done "part time"

You are kidding me, I cannot believe it has not been finished by now! But Tauranga is hardly any better, God only knows when the whole Takatimu mess will be finished. They have been doing "enabling works" for at least this year.



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[rastuscat]

Wish I could find a way to say "I told you so", without saying "I told you so."

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/15VoXJCuEx/

This is a FB link, but it is a Bonnet analysis of the additional cost of the RUC programme.

The Minister did warn of this when he announced it. He said that it was due to decreasing income due to EVs and more efficient vehicles.

They need to collect more, and RUC is how.