I'm a grave menace to society

[Grahameeboy]

Someone forgot to take their happy juice this morning...

Nah he ran out in 1978.......................

[riffer]

Okay, I've read through 8 pages of this now. A few pages back Scumdog asked for a sensible solution to the problem.

I'd like to offer one. And it's radical.

Completely remove ALL speeding offences and tickets thereof. Speed no longer becomes an infringement. However it becomes a crime. Hear me out here...

We get rid of all the speeding ticket offences. But the police have to come to the party somewhat. I want to see more use of careless and dangerous driving. Change the emphasis to speed appropriate to the conditions or actions inappropriate to the conditions. This carries a hell of a lot higher penalty than any speeding tickets could.

Yes, it would involve a lot more police discretion. And you would probably have to test a few cases in court in order to set appropriate precedents. But that's acceptable in my opinion.

And the end result I believe? You would get a huge amount of more respect for the Highway Patrol. Police who make stupid decisions will get tested in court, and found out. Police who make the right calls will get idiots off the road.

And it's a lot harder to argue against a careless charge than a ticket.

Let the flame war begin.

[NordieBoy]

Preferably no more than 8km/h. That's the speed of impact at which bones start to break. Would this be a good speed limit?

But that's a fast walk...

[spudchucka]

Ah but who decides what to target?

Burglary? Assault? Youth Gangs? Drugs?



or the nice and easy one, Speed on the motorway?

Burglars, violent offenders, gang members, druggies.......


........speed too!

[boomer]

Sooo, you don't even enough smarts to become a cop eh?

Bad luck!!

skimping on the paperwork Skumy!? its not like the rozzas to take short cuts..or were you one of the intakes allowed special dispensation?

i didn't go to school, pass my exams or go to university however i'm still clever enough to realise i can earn 4 times what a copper does and not have to put up with being called a useless, donut eating, tax collecting, porka... well ok.. i get called useless

[McJim]

I say gap it and let us know how you get on. you only get punished for small crimes in New Zealand - Major criminals get the red carpet treatment.

[scumdog]

i didn't go to school, pass my exams or go to university however i'm still clever enough to realise i can earn 4 times what a copper does and not have to put up with being called a useless, donut eating, tax collecting, porka... well ok.. i get called useless

Hmm, ya sound almost as bright as me...almost.
I got my educamation from 23 years at the freezing works, riddled with wannabe boomers it was.....

And wotz tha matta? can't eat donuts, collect taxes etc? only useless?

Well that sure as hell ain't much of a resume'.



(BTW, earn 4 times as much? been there, done that - but don't need it no more what with living down here in the impoverished South, besides, my CB earns enough to support me in the poverty to which I've become accustomed to)

[scumdog]

Okay, I've read through 8 pages of this now. A few pages back Scumdog asked for a sensible solution to the problem.

I'd like to offer one. And it's radical.

Completely remove ALL speeding offences and tickets thereof. Speed no longer becomes an infringement. However it becomes a crime. Hear me out here...

We get rid of all the speeding ticket offences. But the police have to come to the party somewhat. I want to see more use of careless and dangerous driving. Change the emphasis to speed appropriate to the conditions or actions inappropriate to the conditions. This carries a hell of a lot higher penalty than any speeding tickets could.


And it's a lot harder to argue against a careless charge than a ticket.

Let the flame war begin.

Sorry, there would be a shitload more 'not guilty' calls as it's way more easier to prove speed than it is to prove careless and dangerous driving.

[boomer]

i aint ready for a move south.. im still gettin to terms with moving to a 3rd world country here in Auckland after nearly 8 yrs.... i'd go postal if i moved south of the bombays.

unfortunately money is the root of all evil.. and being a tax collecting servant YOU KNOW THAT !

but hey.. by the time i get to your age i'll probably be ready for a hog and a little shack in the middle of hicksville but i've got another 20 ish years before i hit 60

[scumdog]

but hey.. by the time i get to your age i'll probably be ready for a hog and a little shack in the middle of hicksville but i've got another 20 ish years before i hit 60

Should you live so long of course!!!

[boomer]

Should you live so long of course!!!

my dad will smash you;

on a lighter more on topic note.. i'm now fair game and naked on the roads as i lent my pig spotter to Speedie to go to the mountain.. so GAME ON MOTHER****ers

[riffer]

Sorry, there would be a shitload more 'not guilty' calls as it's way more easier to prove speed than it is to prove careless and dangerous driving.

Come on SD. You're not getting it.

You've just confirmed to me that even the Police don't believe exceeding the speed limit by a small margin is inherently dangerous. If you genuinely believed it was, you'd jump at this opportunity.

Saying it's easier to prove speed than careless or dangerous is just lazy policing. It's difficult to prove murder too but if one of my loved ones was murdered (and an immediate family member HAS BEEN but I won't get started there) I would expect the Police to work damn hard to prove it.

We need to decide as a nation if speed really IS the problem. I don't think it is. I think bad decisions, inappropriate speed and lack of courtesy is more likely a larger problem. The government needs to enact legislation to support you in confirming this.

[scumdog]

The thing is: You show Joe Snerd he was doing 128kph on the radar and he moans but accepts it.

You summons them for 'careless use' and you can hear the screams of denial from where you are.

Got just such a case - he spun-out, hit a bank, bounce of the bank, spun around twice more and came to rest sideways at the side of the road.

And he wants to go not guilty for careless driving.....WTF?'''/ j

[Squiggles]

cbf'd reading the last 6 pages as i tink they'll be a repeat of last time

112 with an indicated 105, so if ya were going 100 then that'd be under 110, fix ya speedo then you can freely use up that 10k buffer which prevents you getting a ticket for an indicated 100k

I hate speeding, i used to but then i got a ticket for something else (admittedly was close to speeding) and have sinced slowed down, that's one less person speeding, so perhaps ticketing does work

[86GSXR]

Here's something I prepared earlier. It's an excerpt from Back Blocks America, Jo and Gareth Morgans account of their bike trip through the States.

I posted this before, so apologies to those who may have already read it, but it's relevant to us here in NZ and nicely makes the point that it's bad driver behaviour/ability and not necessarily the roads or speed that cause accidents.



One thing we noticed right away about biking in the US - the home of the automobile - is that motorist behaviour is infinitely more courteous than it is back home. While the traffic tends to move a lot faster than is permitted in New Zealand there's a notable lack of aggression in everything they do.

Then again, we've noticed the same thing in most of the countries we've travelled in.

The thing that America has in common with Germany, say, or Bulgaria and that sets it apart from New Zealand is that there is far less regulation of driver behaviour. Drivers are expected to be responsible for their own actions and dependant upon the courtesey of others. Rather than relying on a rule to tell them how to behave, they are guided by the principle of cooperation.

It's a clever discretion of the rule makers. Regulatory latitude gives rise to a 'do as you would be done by' ethos.

Drivers have no choice but to make decisions themselves and, surprise, surprise, they rise to the challenge. It turns out there's no need for a rule for every situation. People work it out among themselves.

Better yet, courtesy - like king of the road aggression - is infectious and prevails in every situation drivers encounter.

There were plenty of examples of how lightly the hand of regulation sits - and how much faith the regulator has in the capacity of individuals to make intelligent choices for themselves. If you're at a red light but you can turn to the right (left in NZ) without danger, you can go ahead and do it. On the open road a speed limit can be exceeded by up to 15 kmh without placing you at risk of receiving a ticket.

This convention had us stumped until, sick of being passed while riding piously at the limit, Jo decided to interrogate a radar gunning cop about how the system worked. Our Kiwi paranoia naturally had us thinking every mile per hour over the limit would see us stung a tidy sum in fines.

'Well little lady' CHiPs responded 'over here we like to see you get from A to B as quickly as possible. So as long as the traffic is orderly we don't worry too much about the speed. Way we figure it, highways are supposed to be of service to the travelling public. I'm just after the maniacs'.

Jo congatulated him on the sanity of this approach to law enforcement and made to leave.

'Hey!' he called after her. 'Make sure you keep up with the traffic. You'll be safe that way'.

The only time Jo did get pulled up was in Montana, by a cop who saw rain a coming and was worried that she didn't have her wet weather gear on.

'You'll get five minutes down the road' he told her, 'then them clouds are going to open right up. You'll be soaked through'.

He finished by asking if she'd like some maps of the area! Does this seem a long way from cop behaviour in New Zealand?

Motorcyclists in many states of America are free to choose whether or not to wear helmets. We wore ours most of the time but it was great having the right to shed them every now and then at our discretion and feel the wind in our hair. Remember when it was like that in New Zealand? That was before we sank into a swill of smothering maternalistic supervision.

Stifling over-regulation such as the laws that prevail in New Zealand creates automatons; morons who need rules and regulations to determine their behaviour for them. People lose the skills that the feedom to make decisions fosters. Sure, lower speeds lower the road toll - but so would banning driving altogether.

This is not to say the power of the state in America is not there, hovering in the background. Their road code has fewer rules but it also has far higher fines - and there is also the fear of being sued if you screw up. Responsibility is very much on individuals - the law treats them almost as though they're grown ups.