The new Pro Twins class

[Robert Taylor]

My riding days started in the 70s on similiar ( no ) suspension and I didnt think much about it then. But on a racetrack people do get hurt with deficient suspension.

We are no longer in the 70s, for better or worse. And despite the best efforts of the thieving control freaks ruining this country we should resist all tendency to develop third world attitudes.

My late night response was quite ''kneejerk''. But suffice to say;

1) The actions of the self serving ''we know whats best for you'' dropkicks in Wellington IS affecting the expendable income of ordinary everyday people ( most of us ) That colours our thinking and in our own little world the ( agreeable ) need to set limits on allowable mods in controlled racing classes. I need not remind everyone that NZ is now a country of high taxes and levies, with real wage rates approximately one third less than our nearest neighbour. A market flooded with cheap imports has destroyed much of our industry that would otherwise productively employ people.

We have become shopkeepers selling goods from sweatshop industries in other lands, we have become property speculators on the back of foreign money we have sold our souls for. Is that a sustainable economy? I think not. It is just as well that our dairy industry is thriving at present on the backs of high demand and commodity prices, otherwise we would be looking pretty sad, in short order. But just imagine if we had a low tax regime and the incentive to work for good wages and do something productive?

The politicians always mess it up to serve their own ends but we could be a great country with high wages and much higher living standards, as opposed to the game of charades we have endured over the last few decades.

This affects everything we do, including motorcycling.

2) Since the 70s frame geometry has become more aggressive, tyre sizes and grip transmit a lot more load into the suspension, as does the massively increased power outputs. Bikes are also lighter and therefore more sensitive to surface irregularities.

But in spite of that, base spec models are equipped with 1950s suspension technolgy, and then we attempt to race them!

Arguably motorcycles of many different capacities cost just as much to make because there are just as many parts and just as much time spent assembling. But smaller capacity models must be seen to be cheaper so lower spec components that are much cheaper to make are fitted. First call on that is most often the suspension.

Hence the abysmal suspension performance of all of these models, especially when we try to push the envelope.

Although some will accuse me of trying to feather my own nest I think that on balance common sense has prevailed with respect to the supension mods allowable in this class.

[johnsv650]

hi,
its safer .......
in life you get what you pay for,
the best is the usually the most expensive, but cheaper if you fall off once because of shit suspension.... whats a paint job and tank worth now days?
more than a quality shock????? and the tyre saving???? and more fun ????
ohlins is worth it, but don't tell the competition.....lol

[steveyb]

Re:R Taylor.... Here bloody here!!!

Regards
Steve

[Drew]

I just want to say, I'm not trying to argue a point here, all that you've said about suspension is spot on to me, I was just trying to say, I find the handling of a stock SV quite ridable. I know full well it will be safer and superior when replaced.

I would also like to say, there are riders out there, who should spend more time on riding technique, than they do money on go fast bits. My opinion only, and certainly not as experienced as yours, but the biggest safety feature on a motorcycle, is between the riders ears, and should be correctly informed before all the flash gear in the world will make the slightest difference.

[Tim 39]

I would also like to say, there are riders out there, who should spend more time on riding technique, than they do money on go fast bits. My opinion only, and certainly not as experienced as yours, but the biggest safety feature on a motorcycle, is between the riders ears, and should be correctly informed before all the flash gear in the world will make the slightest difference.

I fully agree with you there, a lot of people get carried away getting trick bits before they can ride properly. I agree with the rules because it's up to the riders to decide what they need, and its good that the people who are limited by the rules can get the extras they need. Frosty believes more standard would be better, but I think what the rules are now is best... personal opinion

[FROSTY:Me]

Drew mate I gotta tell ya if you rode a SV with apsolutely factory suspension then Im blown away.
I took a near new SV for a ride today>MEIN GOTT.Within its limitations yep it was fine but its limits came up mighty fast.

[Drew]

Drew mate I gotta tell ya if you rode a SV with apsolutely factory suspension then Im blown away.
I took a near new SV for a ride today>MEIN GOTT.Within its limitations yep it was fine but its limits came up mighty fast.

Did the test day on it completely stock, had no hassles, raced on an Ohlins rear, wasn't valved for the track, but was notably better.

[FROSTY:Me]

Did the test day on it completely stock, had no hassles, raced on an Ohlins rear, wasn't valved for the track, but was notably better.

The back stock I could live with--But the front gee willikers waay too soft.

[Robert Taylor]

I just want to say, I'm not trying to argue a point here, all that you've said about suspension is spot on to me, I was just trying to say, I find the handling of a stock SV quite ridable. I know full well it will be safer and superior when replaced.

I would also like to say, there are riders out there, who should spend more time on riding technique, than they do money on go fast bits. My opinion only, and certainly not as experienced as yours, but the biggest safety feature on a motorcycle, is between the riders ears, and should be correctly informed before all the flash gear in the world will make the slightest difference.

Yes, we are pretty much on the same page in many respects. An interesting point here....several years ago we took a stock standard TL1000R to Pukekohe. Present to ride it were Brian Bernard ( top road racer ) and Jonathan Bentman ( Then Kiwi Rider editor and an average rider, hes no longer here to defend himself on that assessment! )

Both did many laps on the stock suspension at stock settings as familiaristion. The settings were then optimised and they set lap times. Following that an Ohlins rear shock, complete fork set and steering damper were fitted.

Brian Bernard improved his lap time by over a second per lap, huge at Pukekohe with so much time spent on the straights. Bentman improved by nearly 3 seconds!

The message here is that a top rider has a much more enhanced perception of feel and can push much closer to limits. But an average rider will benefit more from the improvement because the good quality, high performance components give a much higher level of confidence.

Have you ever seen those ads on TV demonstrating the increased stopping distance that a car has with worn shock absorbers? You can see the front end of the car uncontrollably dive through its stroke and then ''aftercycle''. I liken stock SV suspension to that. Even worse, try a panic stop on a GN250.....you dont always have the choice of riding within the limitations. And its therefore nice to know that there is a higher margin of safety, essential on our roads crowded with lots of ill handling worn tin tops from Japan.

[FROSTY:Me]

Robert--I see the point you are making.BUT Its an unfair comparison.
I concider myself a rider somewhere between the two examples you quote.
During a track day on EXACTLY the same bike with the same sertings I will usually easily drop a second a lap over the day when Ive been on the track within the month.
If say (like now) Ive spent a month or two out of the race bikes saddle I'd expect to drop 3-5 seconds a lap during the day.
As the bike wasn't set back to the factory settings -or a back to back comparison made with a factory setupbike I can't see this as a fair comparison.

[Pussy]

With the comparison being done using an EXCELLENT rider like Brian Bernard, it's a very fair one

[Drew]

Robert--I see the point you are making.BUT Its an unfair comparison.
I concider myself a rider somewhere between the two examples you quote.
During a track day on EXACTLY the same bike with the same sertings I will usually easily drop a second a lap over the day when Ive been on the track within the month.
If say (like now) Ive spent a month or two out of the race bikes saddle I'd expect to drop 3-5 seconds a lap during the day.
As the bike wasn't set back to the factory settings -or a back to back comparison made with a factory setupbike I can't see this as a fair comparison.

I am not trying to be a prick here Tony, but I would not put you somewhere between those two riders, your bike has seen a lot of time spent on it by set up guru's one of which I heard tell you he could win on the bike after he took it round Taupo the way it is, and you came back of the track moaning about it doin things wrong.

It's your riding style that improves by a second a day, nothing to do with set up.

Roberts comparison is about guys who FEEL the difference in bike abilities, then apply it.

[FROSTY:Me]

Yep I came in complaining I went out unsure of how the bike would feel and it felt bloody terrible --Then THE ONLY suspension guru that had ridden and set up my bike patiently (ok who am I kidding not very patiently at all) explained to me that I had to start Pushing the bike to get the benifit of his setup-that it would feel bad at slow speed -The faster I went the better it worked.
I got refamiliarised with my bike and my lap times started to come down
What Robert SAYS is that as the suspension improved over the day as a direct result lap times dropped.
Im saying that lap times WILL fall as you get laps down on a bike and get more familiar with it.
Imnot denying improved suspension will let you go faster Just that the cards were stacked in the aftermarket suspensions favour

[Drew]

Yep I came in complaining I went out unsure of how the bike would feel and it felt bloody terrible --Then THE ONLY suspension guru that had ridden and set up my bike patiently (ok who am I kidding not very patiently at all) explained to me that I had to start Pushing the bike to get the benifit of his setup-that it would feel bad at slow speed -The faster I went the better it worked.
I got refamiliarised with my bike and my lap times started to come down
What Robert SAYS is that as the suspension improved over the day as a direct result lap times dropped.
Im saying that lap times WILL fall as you get laps down on a bike and get more familiar with it.
Imnot denying improved suspension will let you go faster Just that the cards were stacked in the aftermarket suspensions favour

This is getting well off topic I think, but the antagonist in me cant be beaten down at this tasty morsel.

Try it the other way around then, take your bike out in two sessions, then put it back to near standard, and see if you can achieve your best "trick bike" lap times. The only argument you could present, is that a better rider might make the standard laps better than your trick ones, which I've done to death, but it's unlikely you'll do it yourself.

[FROSTY:Me]

Yea BUT IT WASNT DONE--so its impossible to know.Thats my point.
You cant say how much of the improved lap times was suspension and how much was just laps on the track unless there is a "control" bike to ride which there wasn't.