Police shoot and kill another person

[jonbuoy]

How can they shoot to injure when hes running at them with a hammer? If they go for the legs and miss a bullet goes flying down the street to hit god knows what/who. Anywhere on his torso and theres a fairly good chance its going to hit something fairly important. Taser would have been best.

[Paul in NZ]

FFS - the guy did something REALLY stupid - he ran at a cop with a gun with a weapon in his hands.....

Same city, a motorcylist goes through a controlled intersection and hits a pole and dies - speed and alcohol likely to be involved...

Dumb choice, similar outcome....

People do dumb shit and die every day...... Move on

[sAsLEX]

It will come down to witness credibility. There are two conflicting areas here. One says that the offender was approacing the cop with hammer raised. Cop warned him. The other says the offender had both arms at his side when shot.

As I mentioned in earlier posts my initial concern was that 'other weapons may have been involved.' When I hear 'side issues' of may or may not be involved my sceptatism kick in. Never been one afraid to change sides when on the losing one and after reading the media reports in the Press this morning I'd tend on the the side of the copper. But hey if it goes the other I'll switch as quick as it takes some of you to get hard on.

Skyryder

Witnesses are hardly worth the air they breathe. Heard a case recently were 7 different witnesses from an assualt inside a mini van could not agree on the layout of the van's seat..... 7 different versions....... I mean come on!

[Skyryder]

Witnesses are hardly worth the air they breathe. Heard a case recently were 7 different witnesses from an assualt inside a mini van could not agree on the layout of the van's seat..... 7 different versions....... I mean come on!

Try telling Rob Pope that. But I'm not unsympathetic to your post.


Skyryder

[caesius]

Looks like this cop was rather trigger happy at past incidents. I don't understand what they said on the news last night, something about a party pill induced rage, wtf? Party pills don't do that. And he's old - party pills are for having fun - old people don't have fun.

So many mysteries.

[Bren]

And he's old- party pills are for having fun - old people don't have fun.

Gee thanks...I believe he was 37, same age as me.....I HAVE FUN....especially sitting back polishing my tea spoon collection....us geriatrics in our mid thirties can always find fun things to do...

[Patrick]

I hope not............I mean if the guy had a hammer, surely the Police don't have to resort to guns to stop guys like this.

What about the riot gear with shields?

You seen the results of a hammer? I have, mum and 3 kids killed by the dad at Morningside.

There has been no information that the offender was rushing or about to rush the officer. In fact a witness has come forward and stated the offender had his arms at his side at the time of the shooting.

Skyryder

Yeah, his mate neighbour, covered in prison tats, obviously friendly to the constabulary at the best of times... Plenty of other independant witnesses saying this is not the case...

years ago a cop was killed by a fuckwit with a screwdriver ... got him in the carotid artery (IIRC) so "found objects" can be very effective. Murray Stretch I think was the cops name... poor bastard.

Cop in Napier was stabbed in the neck by a screwdriver and lived but had partial paralysis. Murray was killed at Mangakino attending a burglary, catching the guy who then stomped him to death, but hey, he wasn't armed, so that is OK I guess....

Doesn't matter how good you are looking after yourself... there is always someone out there who is going to be much much better than you....

A small point that has been missed from the discussion so far...

Pepperspray.
Better for up-close and personal conditions.

Of course... it always works... cheap shit stuff that doesn't work too many times to rely on. Yep, spray him, realise that didn't work, reach for your baton... oh, is that my brain sitting over my face from that hammer blow?

..and what would the media's reaction have been then, I wonder???

Small item in the inside pages is my guess..... certainly not front page headlines for anywhere near as long this or the Wallace thing was, thats for sure...

The cop who shot Wallace walked the chef did not. I just wonder where we got the double standards from.

And still we hear nothing more on this chef saga... creative journalism springs to mind? Useless lawyer is another.... perhaps the gang bangers weren't that at all? Perhaps they were gobby and didn't hit him at all and he just went after them and shanked one because he could?

[Swoop]

Of course... it always works... cheap shit stuff that doesn't work too many times to rely on. Yep, spray him, realise that didn't work, reach for your baton...

I would have thought that it would be much easier to defend in front of a judge/jury though, even if both were being dispensed at the same time.
"I tried the spray but he didn't stop, so BANG"
In fact, bang x4.
This officer does appear to know how to draw his firearm.

[Patrick]

Well the truth has come to light http://stuff.co.nz/4217339a10.html

Nope... that was the newspaper "The Truth"... right?????

Why do policemen get themselves in a position where they are threatened, then have to use lethal force to defend themselves.
How close do you need to get to a P head with a hammer, golf club etc. in the first instance.
I do not like the thought of being de-sensitised by the police or media to killings.
It is a slippery slope to where history has been before.
Everyone who becomes invloved in a saga such as this becomes a loser.

We do it because no one else will stop them... what were all his mates doing, what about the rather large matey neighbour watching it all?

Quite right about all being a loser, just the loser is dead and the cop will have to go through a whole heap of bollocks all because he did something no one else would... stop the loser. Try and take out a cop with a hammer, when he is armed, well....... Darwin at his best.

Looks like this cop was rather trigger happy at past incidents. I don't understand what they said on the news last night, something about a party pill induced rage, wtf? Party pills don't do that. And he's old - party pills are for having fun - old people don't have fun.

So many mysteries.

Trigger happy????? Where the hell does this shite come from??? Have there been a number of Police shootings he has been involed in??? Is he the Waitara shooter of Wallace??? (I KNOW he isn't). Was he on the grassy knoll for JFK??????

[Patrick]

I would have thought that it would be much easier to defend in front of a judge/jury though, even if both were being dispensed at the same time.
"I tried the spray but he didn't stop, so BANG"
In fact, bang x4.
This officer does appear to know how to draw his firearm.

My bet is this...

Cop "Hey fella, put the hammer down." (Calm talking approach)
Shithead "Get fucked pig, I'm gonna smash your brains out" as he heads toward him.

Cop has two options, run? The guy is faster than him and takes him out with a hammer to the back of the head... hmmm.....

Confront? Yep, it is what we have to do, we have been called, we now have to do something..... Now he is advancing with a weapon and he is only a few feet away. Make a decision on what weapon to use? Spray? Shit probably won't work, end result, dead cop. Baton? Against a hammer? Maybe... big maybe... result, dead cop, probably... Tackle and overpower? He is a martial arts expert, end result, dead cop. While weighing up all these "options" he is closer than ever, still intent on seeing his hammer imbedded inside your skull.

All concentration on drawing and using your gun to ensure you go home to your family safe and well?

Hmmmmmm..... choices, choices....

[Manxman]

Nope... that was the newspaper "The Truth"... right?????



We do it because no one else will stop them... what were all his mates doing, what about the rather large matey neighbour watching it all?

Quite right about all being a loser, just the loser is dead and the cop will have to go through a whole heap of bollocks all because he did something no one else would... stop the loser. Try and take out a cop with a hammer, when he is armed, well....... Darwin at his best.



Trigger happy????? Where the hell does this shite come from??? Have there been a number of Police shootings he has been involed in??? Is he the Waitara shooter of Wallace??? Was he on the grassy knoll for JFK??????

Mate, you are just SO onto it. Very astute, logical and most importantly.....correct on all counts. If I could double bling ya, I would!

To those apathetic people who like believing everything that the press & media put in front of you, then read this guy's posts first. Believing everything that you passively see on TV is called "received opinion", which is very different to sorting through the facts (very hard in these days of throwaway journalism) and reaching an "informed opinion"...

F*CK, the media have so much to answer for, and yet are so unaccountable for their actions.

[Swoop]

Cop has two options, run?
Confront? All concentration on drawing and using your gun to ensure you go home to your family safe and well?

With that mindset and options, your belt will be far lighter.
Forget handcuffs/pepperspray/baton, the perp is always a "martial arts expert" 9th dan in origami, etc...
We know that you have to confront. Runners are not an option.

[Patrick]

With that mindset and options, your belt will be far lighter.
Forget handcuffs/pepperspray/baton, the perp is always a "martial arts expert" 9th dan in origami, etc...
We know that you have to confront. Runners are not an option.

Nah... 99.99999% of the time, the tools do work. Sometimes the spray works, sometimes the baton works, sometimes scrapping it out works. Sometimes talking works and is all that is needed.

It is just that one off once in a lifetime incident that comes up on you completely unexpected, that the media will crucify you for, for the next xxxx number of years, because you felt it was better that you go home to your family in one piece, instead of going home in a box.....

[Edbear]

My bet is this...

Cop "Hey fella, put the hammer down." (Calm talking approach)
Shithead "Get fucked pig, I'm gonna smash your brains out" as he heads toward him.

Cop has two options, run? The guy is faster than him and takes him out with a hammer to the back of the head... hmmm.....

Confront? Yep, it is what we have to do, we have been called, we now have to do something..... Now he is advancing with a weapon and he is only a few feet away. Make a decision on what weapon to use? Spray? Shit probably won't work, end result, dead cop. Baton? Against a hammer? Maybe... big maybe... result, dead cop, probably... Tackle and overpower? He is a martial arts expert, end result, dead cop. While weighing up all these "options" he is closer than ever, still intent on seeing his hammer imbedded inside your skull.

All concentration on drawing and using your gun to ensure you go home to your family safe and well?

Hmmmmmm..... choices, choices....

And like he had all the time in the world to weigh up and consider all the options...

What kind of a person runs at a Cop threatening to clobber him, when the Copper has a drawn gun after being warned? More like "suicide by Police", something you hear about from time to time...

And when the Police are called, they have to do something to stop the offender. Strange, I know, but apparently it's something to do with their employment contract and the training they go through...

But what the hey! It's all fun to speculate without all the facts, eh?

[Coldrider]

Yes Patrick you are right, in the back of my mind what happened is logical, but this is Rant or Rave and in our perfect world we would like to live in somehow things could have had a different outcome.
An experienced (not using the word trained), police officer would have known that a confrontation of this type was a possibility.
This incident should be a wake up call for leisure party pill users.
No doubt the many 'investigations' that will follow will give us the answers.