Police shoot and kill another person

[Edbear]

An experienced (not using the word trained), police officer would have known that a confrontation of this type was a possibility..

What would be the first thing a Cop is going to think when hearing of someone smashing up vehicles in the street with a hammer?

"What's this guy on?" "Is he a hyped-up 'P' user?"

One would be very cautious in approaching an offender under these circumstances. One cop got stabbed in the guts simply by approaching a known P user in the street and saying "Hullo"!

You CANNOT reason with someone hyped up on P, and not knowing what the offender's state of mind is, or if he's on it or some other drug, wouldn't you take the cautious approach? Pepper spray won't do a thing in such a circumstance. Even a Tazer would be questionable at such close range and with so little time as the cop apparently had to react. A cop once described a situation where even the Glock failed to stop a guy after two bullets!

[Grahameeboy]

You seen the results of a hammer? I have, mum and 3 kids killed by the dad at Morningside.

I understand in that situation, just not sure why the Police do not have training to deal with this kinda attack.

Cannot help being a softy.........

[devnull]

Well said Patrick...

The best report was given on TV1 - straightforward account - offender charges at armed cop, offender shot at less than 2m range. Can't say that the offender wasn't given enough time to think about his actions.

Pity TV3 hasn't been hauled up before whatever licencing authority controls broadcasting... talk about wanker central. They don't give a rats ass about accurate reporting, so long as they can boost ratings

[Swoop]

Pity TV3 hasn't been hauled up before whatever licencing authority controls broadcasting... talk about wanker central. They don't give a rats ass about accurate reporting, so long as they can boost ratings

Interesting that they were simply stating what had been put to them from eye witness accounts.

The sooner that the tvnz gubbinment mouthpiece is privatised, and ceases to be a drain on the taxpayer, the better.
Get rid of continuation street and shortarse street as well.

[Skyryder]

Interesting that they were simply stating what had been put to them from eye witness accounts.

The sooner that the tvnz gubbinment mouthpiece is privatised, and ceases to be a drain on the taxpayer, the better.

TV 3 is private. That's what you get with privatisation.

Skyryder

[Timber020]

Bet the PR people for the police have alot less work on there hands because the guy was a pakeha.

[RT527]

Ok This really is starting to Piss me off...One of my workmates was attaked with a hammer....dragged from his truck and is very lucky to be alive, all done with a hammer....so youd rather stand there and with riot gear on huh...well guess what if he got a well aimed hit in the face down the cop goes...and if he goes down with armor on , hes in trouble...that shit weighs some.
you guys are great at saying it shouldnt have happened...well guess what it friggan did and I say he`s there to protect life and property, so let him do his friggan job......if the fella wasnt going loose cannon in the first place then there would have been no prob ....But he did and he payed for not stopping.

so dont tell me an 18 oz hammer doesnt to much damaged , my workmate is still hurting from his attack both mentally and physically.

And if im reading this right, there were people in a car that he had already tried to gain access too, so what if the cop had decided to wait, and the offender drags the person from his car and whacks him, and possible killed him, just to get away in the car...would that be ok in your eyes, cause thats what some of you seem to want to happen....

Then it would be shit why didnt the cop use his gun..then that poor innocent bystander would still be alive.


If im proved wrong and this was an unjust shooting I will eat humble pie.
But im picking that this cops carrer is over even if he is innocent of unjustified manslaughter...Go the cops you have my support.

[Coldrider]

The death has to be challenged, even the Police top brass do that.
My point is that knowing the possible danger involved, why did the officer get so close to the hammerman, that was the defining moment so to speak.
It is interesting how a man with a hammer can take on the 'might of the state', no wonder Helein locked the Skyhawks away.
Anyway I hope the officer recovers well and is able to continue his duties.
Oh, and I won't even mention the scum that profits from the sale/supply of drugs/so called party pills, but I suppose there has to be customers to supply.

[RT527]

I don't think the witnesses will be allowed to touch the gun though It's not the number of bullets in question, it's the reliability of the witnesses.... amazing how everyone saw something different.

Lol try asking at an accident if anyone saw what happened...it goes something like this...

Më "hi, did you see what happened"
Them " yeah''
Me '' So?''
Them '' I heard a bang , turned around and that car was in the pole''
Me '' So you saw it happen''
Them ''Yeah , like i said there was this bang........and that guy was thrown out of the window''
Me '' So how did the guy land , was it head first ?''
Them '' dunno I heard a bang and next thing I know theres a car in the pole and that guy lying over there''
Me '' But you said you saw it happen ''
Them '' Yeah I did ''
Me ''Was that before or after the bang''




You can see that this conversation wasnt getting me much to go on so i could give informed 1st aid to the poor fella in the car or on the ground.

98 % of people hear an accident or incident take place and react.

[pritch]

There is an awful lot of uninformed speculation hereabout and I seemed to recall that a book I had here had some statistics. These figures came from the USA but would not be too dissimilar to similar incidents here.

The figures are derived from over 6,000 shooting incidents involving Police:

Surprise was a significant factor in most of the cases.

In the vast majority of cases the area was poorly lit at the time.

The average distance of an armed encounter was between six and seven feet.

The average duration was 3.2 seconds.

So, you are surprised, it's dark, there is a guy two metres away who wants you dead. You have three seconds to analyse the situation, consider the alternatives, then stop the guy. Or not.
(In 254 of the 6000 incidents the officer was killed.)

The lawyers though will have years for their analysis...

If you feel strongly that the Police should try pepper spray, Tazers, or time out, please feel free to join the force and lead by example.

[sAsLEX]

Bet the PR people for the police have alot less work on there hands because the guy was a pakeha.

But they have already got the Maori priest guy to lift the Tapu that the white guy inflicted on the area....

[I Smell Bacon]

The unreliability of eye witness accounts is well known to police, the courts and to lawyers.

The media probably know this too but they won't let it get in the way of a good story. Defence lawyers choose to ignore the fact too when they find they have numerous eyewitnesses to call in their clients defence.

Here's something I found, third link down on a google search of "unreliability of eyewitness accounts".

http://www.fclr.org/docs/2006fedctslrev3.pdf

Eyewitnesses are in most cases nothing more than bystanders that actually witness only a very small part of the event.

[peasea]

The unreliability of eye witness accounts is well known to police, the courts and to lawyers.

The media probably know this too but they won't let it get in the way of a good story. Defence lawyers choose to ignore the fact too when they find they have numerous eyewitnesses to call in their clients defence.

Here's something I found, third link down on a google search of "unreliability of eyewitness accounts".

http://www.fclr.org/docs/2006fedctslrev3.pdf

Eyewitnesses are in most cases nothing more than bystanders that actually witness only a very small part of the event.

True, eyewitnesses can be funny things/people. Some years ago a mate an I were in the pooh somewhat and two cops were called to give evidence. One got it completely wrong while standing in the box and the other told the truth. Both were present at the time of the incident but had strangely conflicting stories. Luckily the man in black saw fit to believe the truth and off we went home with a fair old lawyer's bill, which confirmed my suspicions about justice being only for those who can afford it.

However, nobody died at that particular incident and while it's highly unlikely the cops go out shooting all and sundry just coz they can whatever evidence is produced, how it is produced, whoever saw the goings-on and whatever comes to light you will never satisfy everyone.

As for the claims of party pill consumption in this instance; I have taken my share of those things and they're not for me, very uncool come-down and it wouldn't bother me if they banned them. I have taken a fair few of those things at one time and seen others do the same, even combined with alcohol and/or pot but never have I seen anyone go on any sort of hammer-wielding rampage, or any sort of rampage for that matter. He would have to have been on something else with or without the party pills. In all my years of drug taking the worst offenders when it comes to violent behaviour have been P and alcohol.

No doubt they'll be taking some blood from this dude, so let's see if the results are made public. I doubt he was sitting watching Coro' with a cup of tea and a biscuit.

[Delerium]

The death has to be challenged, even the Police top brass do that.
My point is that knowing the possible danger involved, why did the officer get so close to the hammerman, that was the defining moment so to speak.
It is interesting how a man with a hammer can take on the 'might of the state', no wonder Helein locked the Skyhawks away.
Anyway I hope the officer recovers well and is able to continue his duties.
Oh, and I won't even mention the scum that profits from the sale/supply of drugs/so called party pills, but I suppose there has to be customers to supply.

Tell me again how the disbandment of the air combat wing is relevant, here? (sorry not trying to be patronising, I dont see the connection is all)

[Manxman]

Interesting that they were simply stating what had been put to them from eye witness accounts.

...yeah but what ever happened to corroborating your story? "That" account of 'hands by side, standing passively, , came from only a small minority (two people?) . Everyone else told the same version of events, but TV3 still chose to focus on these two 'revered' members of society (did anyone see the photo of them in the paper...nuff said). Credibility issues here, I think.

TV3 used to be the channel that got the real deal behind events...not anymore - heck even Campbell has lost the plot, and moderated big time since famously ripping into HRH Clark a few years ago.