Wire (cheese cutter) barriers

[sunhuntin]

I don't know anything about cheese cutters... I've seen them, and thought to myself, 'that'd hurt to hit'.

Are they keeping cars from coliding? Many cars? Are they cost effective compared to the alternatives (armco?).

Are we having this conversation because;
- Someone fell off as a result of external factors, and died when they hit one,
- Or because someone was using the road unsuitably (wheelies, speed, whatever) and died as a result of losing control and hitting one?

It matters because it changes the justification for getting rid of them. Sure falling off when it's not your fault and hitting one resulting in death would suck arse in a big way, but if they're saving the lives of other motorists (yes, even cars) in reasonable numbers, then that must be offset against a small(?) number of motorcyclists dying on them as a result of their own actions. Sure that seems a bit utilitarianist, but what is the greater good?

Do we have any facts to make a decision against? What happened? How many lives have they saved? What do they cost? What are the alternatives?

/edit: grammar!!

it doesnt matter the reason someone hitting and being killed by a cheese cutter. one death, no matter the cause, is too many. i do not place the value of a cagers life any higher than yours or mine.
you cannot place a value on a life, no matter whos it is. the wealthy are not worth more than we are, and the poor are not worth less.

btw, whoever emailed michael laws... dont hold your breath for any support or anything from him... hes more interested in pursuing his own agenda right now and making sure only he benefits.

[Pixie]

Perhaps a 'hikoi by bike' to Parliament would work?

Bikoi of the Bothered

[riffer]

it doesnt matter the reason someone hitting and being killed by a cheese cutter. one death, no matter the cause, is too many. i do not place the value of a cagers life any higher than yours or mine.

Exactly. Despite IdleIdolIdyll's protestations, the penalty for speeding is not yet death.

[Mr Merde]

Exactly. Despite IdleIdolIdyll's protestations, the penalty for speeding is not yet death.

I never remember the above mentioned person ever advocating the said penalty. I know you disagree with this person but please dont attribute such to him just for the sake of it.

[Ixion]

Further development.

I have been contacted by a Ms Vivienne Keohane, who is a North Shore City Councillor.

I have spoken with her. She has had reservations about these barriers for some time. She has tried to raise these concerns at Traffinz (what that ?) conferences in the past and been stifled with the response that "a concrete barrier would be just as bad".

She is supportive ,and willing to help. Anyone on the North Shore, it would be no bad thing to contact her and cement the relationship . keohane@slingshot.co.nz ; 09 444 7694. Contact details are a matter of public record (on her website) , and I cleared publication with her.

This "concrete barrier is just as bad " keeps coming up. I know it's false, but I've not put it to the test. Has anyone actually had experience of hitting a concrete barrier ? or any other sort? So they can give a first hand statement.

Also , she asked (and this also keeps coming up) , have there been other injuries (or deaths?) as a result of hitting the barriers. Has anyone hit them (on a bike, obviously) and lived to tell the tale ? (In NZ - I know there are cases overseas)

[Biohazard]

what about the costs of covering up the cheese cutters with some sort of sheef?

-Indy

I believe this is what they did in the UK to the wire barriers on the central reservations. They used plastic sheaf’s to take the “edge” out of the impact and transfer the impact rather then being a hazard as they clearly are….

They scared the hell out of me then and still do.

[James Deuce]

Whinge all you want. The correct response to any query from a motorcyclist to any arm of Government is: "Motorcyclists are 14 times more likely to be involved in an accident."

You ride a motorcycle, it's your fault if anything happens because you tacitly accepted the 14 times greater risk of an accident the moment you donned your helmet.

In other words: "They" don't care.

There's not enough motorcyclists to be concerned about votes, and there is no way in hell you can herd motorcyclists into becoming a unified voting bloc, given the ridiculous accent placed on individual "rights" by motorcyclists, as evidenced by the very title of the "national" organisation representing motorcycling in NZ.

To make "Them" care you have to make yourselves a threat. If becoming that threat means voting Green at the next election, both Constituent MP and List MP, because the Greens support the cladding of cheesecutter wire rope barriers, then you ALL have to vote Green, irrespective of any other policies you don't like. All of you. Not 30%, not 35%. All of you.

I can't see that happening, can you?

Having a hissy fit right now is all well and good, but it needs to be backed by solid, ideologically based organisation that may mean putting your own political preferences to one side over one solitary issue. Members of societies that value political freedom would have no difficulty with that concept.

[MSTRS:Me]

Good stuff Ixion. Not being subject to any frequent exposure to these abortions cos there are none in HB, is there anything I can say directly to this sort of person that could help?

[Pixie]

As part of living in a small backwater country, I accept we don't have endless dollars to spend. We could always spend more, better seal, better signage, etc etc

If only NZ had a budget surplus to spend on these things

[sunhuntin]

No, not there! Those should be concrete barriers.

agreed... damn stupid place for them. i remember i did a night ride down that way... would have been about 9.30 and pitch black. i was crawling along that bit of road at about 50k cos i couldnt see where they were. never been so scared in all my life of coming off.

[James Deuce]

This "concrete barrier is just as bad " keeps coming up. I know it's false, but I've not put it to the test. Has anyone actually had experience of hitting a concrete barrier ? or any other sort? So they can give a first hand statement.

I hit a concrete one while travelling parallel to the barrier at 100km/hr.

A truck knocked me off by changing 3 lanes in an instant, I was thrown up and to the right of the bike and broke my wrist when I landed on my arm. I then slid into the concrete barrier and slid along it for a few metres before gently coming to rest with no injuries from hitting the barrier or sliding along it.

Does that help at all?

[MSTRS:Me]

Jim2 - would Welly bikers unite if these bloody things began to be installed up the guts of the Takas???

[Drum]

Traffinz is the NZ local government traffic institute. A group of traffic engineers etc who work for local bodies. They organise annual conferences for the industry. Contact person is Dave Gamble.

You might also try the IPENZ Transportation Group, contact person Bruce Conaghan (who works for Manukau City Council).

I still believe the person to go to is Roly Frost, General Manager Network Operations for Transit NZ - he is the man who says what barriers can and can't be installed.

[Pixie]

You are surely kidding Pixie? So the 'orderly flow of traffic' is now officially dictated by the slowest vehicle on the road?

I believe there is an "unofficial" policy of lowering the speed limits on selected sections of highway,by just these very means.

[James Deuce]

Jim2 - would Welly bikers unite if these bloody things began to be installed up the guts of the Takas???

No. They'd do the normal, "It's not my problem", and "What's the big deal?" that they usually do.