Wire (cheese cutter) barriers

[sunhuntin]

possibly... its been a while since ive been down there. usually only go as far as levin, and then take the back road to palmy and home.

[motorbyclist]

well here's my take:

the barriers are there to prevent car accidents, and let's face it, while one or two bikers may be cut up, another 10 or 20 cagers will survive. for that reason ltnz has decided to use these barriers. BUT, there is no reason they cannot make them biker friendle

so instead of going to the extreme to have them ripped out, we should act to have a plastic sheet running along the traffic-side(s) of the barrier. i would suggest the same is done for all barriers with poles. plastic is dirt cheap, so why not? the barrier will actually give a little if a rider hits it between posts, and will still act as it should for car impact.

this way cagers, bikers and taxpayers win, without the need to rip up existing barriers

the plastic could be coloured or transparent for aesthetics, and could have up to 30mm clearance from the ground to allow for drainage where neccessary.

if LTNZ cannot see that as a solution to the problem, something is seriously wrong up there

i'm sure this has been covered somewhere in all these pages, but i gave up reading after a while

[motorbyclist]

The problem with this statement is that it assumes we are all of the same riding ability. Take away all novices and overconfident riders and this figure would be much lower.

i've always been interested in what the figures are like for bike accidents caused by bikers and bike accidents cause my cagers


and just a thought; how well would a van or SUV hit a cable barrier? on a car the cable hits around the centre of gravity, but i magine a van flipping over the barrier isn't that difficult to do! extra safety! there's a bit on sh i think going up the bombays southbound which looks like it'd send a van upside down into oncoming motorway traffic. and what about lowered cars and ferrari height cars - i don't think the pillars would do to great a job at holding the cable... lol the car would probably go under

and this man is an absolute idiot
http://stuff.co.nz/hawkesbay/4198973a23918.html

[car]

Interesting report ntst8.

It concludes there is insufficient evidence to support wire barriers present a greater risk to motorcyclists (Mulvihill & Corben, report from Monash University). So is that an absence of evidence or evidence of absence???

Probably one too many glasses of vin rouge for me tonight but...

Those percentages they quote make for pretty decoration, but conclusions drawn from so few samples have to be suspect. Finding the original reports that this report cites would be a good idea.

This paper, though older than the Mulvihill and Corben paper cited by Transit:

http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/muarc210.pdf

seems to be saying that there's just not enough evidence either way. Considering the pitifully small sample sets they have to work with, that would seem to be the only conclusion they can draw. It makes some suggestions for making barriers more motorcycle friendly, too.

This earlier report:

http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/atsb201.pdf

suggesting further research, including the instigation of crash-testing for motorcyclists, says a lot of interesting things, not the least of which is:

... whether or not a barrier system has a continuous surface could be expected to have a large impact on the safety performance where motorcyclists are concerned. For example, although the rigidity of concrete barriers is inherently hazardous in terms of not absorbing the force of impact, for motorcyclists, their continuous surface is preferable to the non-continuous surfaces of W-beam and wire rope systems at low impact angles. This is due to the fact that barriers with a continuous surface enable sliding and “soft” redirection of the victim and allow for greater distribution of contact forces over a large body area (Sala and Astori, 1998). Alternatively, direct victim–post interaction in the case of non-continuous barriers results in concentrated loads acting on the body, generating high flexion/extension movements of the body, high decelerations and high inertial loads (Sala and Astori, 1998). However, sharp decorative edges on concrete barriers (such as sound fence), which transform the surface into a non-continuous barrier, are not desirable in terms of motorcycle safety (Ouellet, 1982). In terms of energy absorbing properties of barrier systems, those which have the capacity to dissipate impact energy through deformation or alternate mechanisms present less of an injury risk to motorcyclists (Sala & Astori, 1998).

[Draco]

What next? Is there anyone who is prepared to spend/has the time to sort all this out ? Then we could start with a petition that was to be signed, then taken to parliment by a big group of bikers.

If you read my update post two days ago it was explained that several senior kb members would be meeting. Said meeting has just concluded. Details of petition & ride will be posted tomorrow. This is all underway. Media, politicians/officials, motorcycling organisations & all relavent authorities are being contacted to ensure the public profile of our cause does not lose momentum. Check out the site tomorrow. Help will be requested for a couple of issues, and members with relevant skills and contacts will be pm'd to ask for their assistance. After the initial ride is done, future events such as petition delivery are then next on the list. It's happening people, just be patient. As i've said before, meantime keep those emails going to MP's etc.

[Max Preload]

and this man is an absolute idiot
http://stuff.co.nz/hawkesbay/4198973a23918.html

Yeah. That'd be him, again...

[motorbyclist]

if you have the ride after mid-november when uni exams are done, or later still when everyone is on christmas break from work, more aucklanders could make it down to welligton if that's where you're having it.

[Sanx]

Talking about the distance from the road to the barrier. Douglas Bader Drive, the approach road to the Airport, had two sections of cheese-cutters installed about a year back. The distance from the barrier to the kerb is between 1m and 1.5m (the distance varies a little). Any car hits those, and they're going onto the opposite carriageway anyway.

[Fub@r]

i've always been interested in what the figures are like for bike accidents caused by bikers and bike accidents cause my cagers

From memory the ACC motorbike campaign earlier this year gave figures (from memory) that 80% of accidents involving a bike were directly caused by a cage.

[Max Preload]

From memory the ACC motorbike campaign earlier this year gave figures (from memory) that 80% of accidents involving a bike were directly caused by a cage.

Close enough - 75%. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10445028

[Fub@r]

Close enough - 75%. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10445028

Reason I remembered was even I couldn't believe how high that stat was

[motorbyclist]

right, so motorcyclists dont get a safe barrier because we dont hit them enough, yet when we do it's generally a car's fault?

[Fub@r]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/M...eadid=21155593

im girlgeorgina over there

aaaarrrrhhhh some people are sooo fucken ignorent

After reading some of the garbage posted there I had to have a rant!

That stupid twit that said "Transit wouldn't use them unless they were safe" needs to learn to think for themself

[Riff Raff]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10471713

I found this particularly interesting:

There were not many median barriers on New Zealand's motorways until the late 80s, when a campaign was run by four Auckland intensive care doctors to get them installed.

Auckland District Health Board critical care medicine intensive care specialist Stephen Streat was one of them.

Dr Streat said that although the wire barriers were cheaper, they had pushed for the concrete version.

"As a doctor, there were concerns that the wire might act like a guillotine." he said.'

[klyong82]

Looks like we got TNZ's attention. Now to organise the protest ride to show that we mean business.