Advice: Overcoming a fear of braking

[F5 Dave]

Yes it is, when I'm fiddling with the front brake and don't get around to cracking the throttle on before the apex. The jolt going from a shut throttle to 1/4 open is much more unsettling than winding 1/3 throttle on when it's already cracked open. The twitchy EFI on GSXRs doesn't help. Lazy burbly carburetion makes a sloppy throttle hand so much less problematic.

I have no issues with the back end squirming a little on the gas in corners; I quite like it, as a matter of fact.

Edit: Just to make it clear, my issue is not with winding the throttle on once I'm heading out of a corner; it's with setting the bike up to drive out of it smoothly.

Some (esp badly jetted) 2 strokes can be a bit this way coming onto power, the only way I've found to combat it is to pull the clutch a bit to soften the power coming in, the advantage is you are more confident in turning the throttle on a bit earlier. Never really had the problem on my 750 (lovely dirty but smooth flatslides) so not so sure how it would work on larger 4 strokes but may be worth a try.

[MotoGirl]

Hey MG-that corner in itself can be a total B@#@#@
As others have suggested go back to that incident and figure out what
Happened-
Did you for example hit the dip and bounce out-unloading the front end?

Tell me about it!

As for how it actually happened, I can only go by what the other guys on the track told me, and they said I stayed on the brakes too long. I was so surprised to be on the ground that it never really registered how I got there

[MotoGirl]

I think the only course of action is to practise finishing the braking on the straight and having the bike settled before turning in. That can then be blended into progressively letting the brake go later.

This sounds like a plan. Like I said in my first post, I don't have issues braking in a straight line. I just don't really use brakes at all when I approach a corner, hence, I don't go barrelling down the straights either.

Here's what I think I should do:
1. Go fast enough down the straights so I need to brake at the end (even if only gently to start)
2. Brake on the straight before I get to the corner
3. Once I get comfortable with slowing myself down, do what White Trash suggested and leave any braking closer to the corner as each lap progresses.

Feel free to rip this idea apart - I'm out to improve my riding, not kill myself!

[steveb64]

Good call to that man .
target fixsation is what we call that and the bike will always go where you look.

I used to run a riding school in Welly and the thing i did with the paranoid was to get the front wheel on a metre square lump of plywood and get them to "slowly" ride foreward and keep the feet on the pegs.
If you feel the bike go out of balance just let the brake of and ride away.
It sounds dangerous but it gives you a feeling of what its like to have a front wheel lockup but also how easy it is to get out of it.... let the brake off.
If it does go wrong its very slow and not much damage will be done.
To anyone that wants to rubbish this theory ill ask them to try it first.
There are many physics rules to overcome to get a bike to corner but it is able to be done due to the suspension and dynamics of the bike,plus a few other things.
The best advice is to keep inside your comfort zone but gradually extend the zone as you feel the comfort level increase.

Target fixation doesn't only occur on bikes - applies to most things that can go fast - cars, skis, pushbikes,... Lost count of the number of times I ended up on my arse (or face) from looking AT the bloody hole or slippy bit I wanted to miss when I was a youf. Got the art of focusing on where I WANT to be now...

Another option for training - get out on a dirt bike - I got an old Yammie XT225 for the wife to thrash around on - before I get her Bandit fixed up. Even make her go out and have a thrash around on it when it's raining (if it's not too cold), so she gets the feel of the thing slipping and sliding around. It's working too - she's getting better and better on it, plus learning things like getting bum off seat, and weight on footpegs to help control things, which also applies to road bikes. Try riding it like an MX'er!

[Arronduke]

"A twist of the wrist 2" written by Keith Code is a book written on the basics of high performance motorcycle riding for the road and the track.

He explains perfectly why we brake to hard for a corner only to have to speed up and why when we panic we go stright ahead.

One of the best things I learned from this book was lifting my eye balls from just in front of my front tyre to way ahead. You acually go where you look...... dam. Lifting your eyes and looking around the corner will have you around the corner in a flash.

becomes second nature after a while.

[MotoGirl]

"A twist of the wrist 2" written by Keith Code is a book written on the basics of high performance motorcycle riding for the road and the track.

Yup, we've got both of those books. I should read them at some point...

[Mountlocal1]

Yup, we've got both of those books. I should read them at some point...

I dont suppose theres a KB library that lends these out? Ive finally fixed the suspension on my bike and am now havn to completly re learn everything Ive been doin... Awsome info! Thanks heaps for bringing this up MG.

[Storm]

This sounds like a plan. Like I said in my first post, I don't have issues braking in a straight line. I just don't really use brakes at all when I approach a corner, hence, I don't go barrelling down the straights either.

Here's what I think I should do:
1. Go fast enough down the straights so I need to brake at the end (even if only gently to start)
2. Brake on the straight before I get to the corner
3. Once I get comfortable with slowing myself down, do what White Trash suggested and leave any braking closer to the corner as each lap progresses.

Feel free to rip this idea apart - I'm out to improve my riding, not kill myself!

I'd say thats the way to go. A little bit at a time. If need be start out at what feels like a ridculously slow speed(whatever that may be to you) ,that you wouldnt pancake about giving a gentle brake squeeze when necessary. Once you get round a few times, go slightly faster, and so on.
Dont take this the wrong way, but it sounds like its a mental problem ie you remember that you braked in a corner and things went pear shaped. Now, you see corners and have concscious/subconscious flashbacks, so doing it slower and succesfully will hopefully erase bad memories and enable you to do what you need to do without having negative vibes at the site of a bend approaching at pace.
Hope that helps

[MotoGirl]

Dont take this the wrong way, but it sounds like its a mental problem ie you remember that you braked in a corner and things went pear shaped.

You're bang on the money there. I don't really want to repeat something that left me with physical and emotional scars!

[MotoGirl]

I think I've figured out a plan and (hopefully) another chicken might find this thread useful.

I got a suggestion to only use one corner to practice on. To do this, I'm going to have to look at the speedo to make sure I'm actually increasing my speed down the straight before the corner I'm practising on.

If I don't increase the speed, I won't have to use the brakes harder and won't learn to use brakes at higher speeds.

Once I've nailed this, I'll start braking later.

Thanks for your input everyone!

[MVnut]

Yup, we've got both of those books. I should read them at some point...

Yeah yeah, some point now would be good, and to get get a bit more confidence back in using the front brake further into the turn, back it off a bit at the lever so there's a fraction more play and less instant bite. You 'll find yourself relaxing more about braking so you can be more on autopilot instead of your brain telling you things you don't wanna hear. ciao and yes, practising one corner at a time is good, (gives you more options on the exit) then start stringing em together you won't go far wrong if you take codgy's advice

[MotoGirl]

Yeah yeah, some point now would be good, and to get get a bit more confidence back in using the front brake further into the turn, back it off a bit at the lever so there's a fraction more play and less instant bite. You 'll find yourself relaxing more about braking so you can be more on autopilot instead of your brain telling you things you don't wanna hear. ciao and yes, practising one corner at a time is good, (gives you more options on the exit) then start stringing em together you won't go far wrong if you take codgy's advice

Righto then! I'll check them out of the Cajun library and have a looksie.

I agree with you saying it's important to be relaxed on the bike. I've only started doing this in the past few weeks and my riding is probably three times better than it was!

I'm expecting something in my head to just click one day and I'll be back out there giving everyone shit

[Mental Trousers]

I used to run a riding school in Welly and the thing i did with the paranoid was to get the front wheel on a metre square lump of plywood and get them to "slowly" ride foreward and keep the feet on the pegs.
If you feel the bike go out of balance just let the brake of and ride away.
It sounds dangerous but it gives you a feeling of what its like to have a front wheel lockup but also how easy it is to get out of it.... let the brake off.
If it does go wrong its very slow and not much damage will be done.

Hey now that's a much better way of doing it rather than getting people to lock up the front brake on grass/dirt.

As for braking into a corner, one guy I was helping out on the weekend was having trouble braking too heavily when entering a corner. I got him to do all the real heavy braking before he tried to turn in.

1. Ride towards a corner
2. Off the gas and start braking enough to make the front suspension dive a bit
3. After about a half second pause squeeze the brakes much harder
4. Start easing off the brakes nice and smoothly
5. Tip in

If you think of it as a percentage from when you start braking it goes something like:

25% ..... 100% ..... 75% ..... 50% ..... 25% ..... 10% .... 0%

Doing it that way you will be coming off the brakes all the way into the corner rather than trying to brake going in. You have to be smooth all the time though, especially coming off the brakes. If you don't you'll load-unload-load the suspension. Easing off the brakes eliminates the unloading of the suspension and it also stops the suspension from pushing the front tyre away from the bike too hard

[HenryDorsetCase]

OK, enough is enough! I'm sick of being a pansy and want advice on how I can get over my fear of braking. I got scared of this after low siding my VTR at Taupo two years ago - all because I stayed on the brakes too long tipping into the corner at the end of the straight (old track). I was riding like a bat out of Hell at the time.

were you gone when the morning came?

oh, and what they ^^^^ said.

[MotoGirl]

If you think of it as a percentage from when you start braking it goes something like:

25% ..... 100% ..... 75% ..... 50% ..... 25% ..... 10% .... 0%

Doing it that way you will be coming off the brakes all the way into the corner rather than trying to brake going in. You have to be smooth all the time though, especially coming off the brakes. If you don't you'll load-unload-load the suspension. Easing off the brakes eliminates the unloading of the suspension and it also stops the suspension from pushing the front tyre away from the bike too hard

I like the sound of that. Thanks!