The smell of bacon is fresh...

[Pex Adams]

Since I'm into making random comments at the moment - I would just like to express my amazement at how fast this Flame thread has taken off...

Great Shit KBers.. Flame away

BTW did anyone now that FATJIM turns 40 in a couple of weeks???

[Bruiser]

When did I say that I "bought" the bike??? I do not legally own it - nor can I legally own it, even with license conditions aside.

As I said before my options were limited - either ZX11 for a few months on wrong license or no transport at all in any form (short of public) for close to three years. Fuck that.

You had the option of public transport!

And as for that three years? I have a feeling what that is about and if you aren't "allowed" to own an asset until that is up, then what the hell are you doing riding uninsured?

I assume that until discharged you are at the mercy of "the man" and unable to make good any losses if you hit another bike or car, right Dan?

[Disco Dan]

You had the option of public transport!

And as for that three years? I have a feeling what that is about and if you aren't "allowed" to own an asset until that is up, then what the hell are you doing riding uninsured?

I assume that until discharged you are at the mercy of "the man" and unable to make good any losses if you hit another bike or car, right Dan?

Yep, you know exactly what I am talking about

Uninsured for a couple more weeks before im added to the policy - then there are no 'losses' as such to worry about.

Apart from a few minor annoyances, "its" actually quite nice. Although not something I would recommend or do again myself if I can help it!!

[Bruiser]

Yep, you know exactly what I am talking about

Uninsured for a couple more weeks before im added to the policy - then there are no 'losses' as such to worry about.

Apart from a few minor annoyances, "its" actually quite nice. Although not something I would recommend or do again myself if I can help it!!

Then may I ask you to please not ride for that two weeks. You and I both know you can't make good any losses should you create a mess (in every sense of the word) for an innocent motorist. Knowing this and continuing to ride does you absolutely no credit, and you've already lost enough of that!

I lost a good business, over $80k of earnings, four staff (some with families) lost their jobs, all because the guilty party, just like you Dan, had no money or insurance.

Until you are insured, FFS get a bus eh!

[Edbear]

Very closed minded of you there Stevie. Do you think I am unqualified to ride a bike bigger than a 250? I might be a lazy prick for not having gotten my correct licence, but I dont think I should be banned. There a folk out there with the correct licence , but no clue of how to handle a "big bike".

Something that has become obvious in this thread is a number of people's attitudes to the rule of law. While I have some sympathy for Dan's situation, it is plain that some believe that laws are there for others, or to obey if it's convenient to do so.

If everyone had this attitude there would be anarchy. Shall we all simply choose for ourselves which laws we will obey and which we will ignore? It is notable, that for those who lightly ignore "inconvenient" laws, their compliance is usually directly related to their perception of the risk of getting caught. Such persons are also very quick to take advantage of laws that will assist them, and judge harshly others who break laws that have an adverse effect on them personally. In other words, they play the laws and flout the laws to their personal advantage without consideration for the consequences to others, or the long term effects on themselves. They want it both ways.

Anyone who gets in trouble for breaking the law has no grounds for complaining but should always be of the attitude of "Fair Cop, Guv!"

Personally I have experienced many severe trials and setbacks as, no doubt have many on here, but have managed to deal with them lawfully. It's all about attitude, not about whether one "has no choice but to break the law".

[steveb64]

If it's not his fault, he doesn't have to pay. I'd say parking a car in the middle of the road on a blind corner, is criminal negligence!

Bollocks.

From the road code:

# you can stop in the length of clear lane you can see in front of you on a road with a centre line or lanes.

As for the car - yep, it was a f-wit place to stop - but why were they stopped? Sometimes vehicles stop. In crap places. Because they've BROKEN DOWN! (Got caught by that at the top of Ngaraunga Gorge once - nearly missed it, but didn't quite. And the insurance paid...), and sometimes because the driver is just a dick.
Sometimes you get animals on the road too... ...or another bike down... ...or rocks on the road... then what? Are they being criminally negligent too?

To stop in time for a parked car around a blind corner he'd have to be doing 20k. Is that a reasonable speed to go on the rimutakas? I don't think so when you have 4x4s up your arse.

I know the 'takas quite well, as I've lived in Wellington for a number of years (on and off), and left my share of black lines around the corners - and you can do more than 20k's around corners on the hill AND still be able to stop. As long as you have decent riding skills... ...and a decent bike setup... ...AND pay attention to the road in front.
If he was so freaked out by the 4x4's up his arse (and how come they didn't crash into him?) - then he should have pulled over and let them past! Then he could have carried on at his own happy pace, without needing to risk outriding his skill level - which was possibly not high, given that he was on a 100.

BTW - If you want to make the Hill feel like a multi-lane motorway - do the following ride from Wellington: North to Porirua, out through Pauatahanui Inlet, over Paekak hill road, up to Waikanae, over the Akatarawa's to Upper Hutt, then over the Rimutakas to Featherston, and then off round the lake Ferry (floodgates) road, and loop back - heading back over the hill to Wellington again. After the Akatarawas, the 'takas seem really wide and smooth...

[Coyote]

I'm going to stop talking about this one for now since I don't know the full story. I'm only going by what I was told.


Feel like everyone is defending the insurance companies right not to pay out though

[Disco Dan]

Something that has become obvious in this thread is a number of people's attitudes to the rule of law. While I have some sympathy for Dan's situation, it is plain that some believe that laws are there for others, or to obey if it's convenient to do so.

If everyone had this attitude there would be anarchy. Shall we all simply choose for ourselves which laws we will obey and which we will ignore? It is notable, that for those who lightly ignore "inconvenient" laws, their compliance is usually directly related to their perception of the risk of getting caught. Such persons are also very quick to take advantage of laws that will assist them, and judge harshly others who break laws that have an adverse effect on them personally. In other words, they play the laws and flout the laws to their personal advantage without consideration for the consequences to others, or the long term effects on themselves. They want it both ways.

Anyone who gets in trouble for breaking the law has no grounds for complaining but should always be of the attitude of "Fair Cop, Guv!"

Personally I have experienced many severe trials and setbacks as, no doubt have many on here, but have managed to deal with them lawfully. It's all about attitude, not about whether one "has no choice but to break the law".

Cheers EdBear - very well written


Yes, 9 times out of 10 there is a legal choice. In my case the legal choice would be to use public transport.

As such, I choose to take the risk of being pulled over and take the risk that I smash into a brand new bmw and have to pay out...

By posting I was not looking for sympathy, or even "you idiot, you have no insurance" comments - I have my reasons for picking this choice, and I have reasons for being in the financial handicap that is bankcruptcy. Yes that was also my choice. I dont regret making that choice, however I would not wish anyone else to go through such a time.

I am better off after making these choices than I was before, I have a much more prosperous financial future than I had before. I also have a gorgous ZX11 waiting for me after I am discharged - some may see it as 'opening your christmas present early' others 'bending the rules' and I am sure as heck there are many many more view points! But it does not matter. I am happy with my choices. I am thankful that such a scheme exsits for I would be well into retirement before I would ever have been able to reverse the financial imaturity and idiocracies of my youth!

My friend has agreed to help me. He has stood by me throughout the entire process, supporting me - and he will continue to support me because he is a great friend.

I appreciate all your feedback folks... but it is my choice - not yours.

[Smoggy]

Must admit, it does piss me off. Have got a clean licence, never claimed on my insurance, and even though I am classed as a wrinkly, the amount of ACC I get stung, with also having van and car is unreal. Anyone know if there are any discounts available? and bring in compulsory insurance.

[scracha]

but I dont think I should be banned. There a folk out there with the correct licence , but no clue of how to handle a "big bike".

You can't be banned if you don't have a license
It's not small minded of me and you're missing the point.

How would you feel if some guy without a car license who "thought he knew how to handle a car" knocked down and killed your girlfriend? There is a point in having a test and if everyone who thought they knew better got in/on and drove/rode a "fast car" or "big bike" then all hell would break loose.

Your point about having a license and not knowing how to handle a bike bike is an indication of the $hit driver training and testing in New Zealand and nothing to do with "not bothering to have a license".

Finally, you are a great track rider and I've heard you're good at stunting. However I've never seen your road riding so can't really comment on whether you should be "banned" or otherwise?

I'm all for live and let live but only when it doesn't adversely affect anybody else.

I'm going back to my beer now.

[Smoggy]

Bollocks.

From the road code:

# you can stop in the length of clear lane you can see in front of you on a road with a centre line or lanes.

As for the car - yep, it was a f-wit place to stop - but why were they stopped? Sometimes vehicles stop. In crap places. Because they've BROKEN DOWN! (Got caught by that at the top of Ngaraunga Gorge once - nearly missed it, but didn't quite. And the insurance paid...), and sometimes because the driver is just a dick.
Sometimes you get animals on the road too... ...or another bike down... ...or rocks on the road... then what? Are they being criminally negligent too?



I know the 'takas quite well, as I've lived in Wellington for a number of years (on and off), and left my share of black lines around the corners - and you can do more than 20k's around corners on the hill AND still be able to stop. As long as you have decent riding skills... ...and a decent bike setup... ...AND pay attention to the road in front.
If he was so freaked out by the 4x4's up his arse (and how come they didn't crash into him?) - then he should have pulled over and let them past! Then he could have carried on at his own happy pace, without needing to risk outriding his skill level - which was possibly not high, given that he was on a 100.

BTW - If you want to make the Hill feel like a multi-lane motorway - do the following ride from Wellington: North to Porirua, out through Pauatahanui Inlet, over Paekak hill road, up to Waikanae, over the Akatarawa's to Upper Hutt, then over the Rimutakas to Featherston, and then off round the lake Ferry (floodgates) road, and loop back - heading back over the hill to Wellington again. After the Akatarawas, the 'takas seem really wide and smooth...

And on a rainy day as well

[Drew]

Such persons are also very quick to take advantage of laws that will assist them,

The very reason people study law, to get paid for taking advantage of the law in the interest of others.

I was just saying that having the correct licence means squat, it's a very cursery test. And a decent lawyer will screw you out of your cash should an offender contest his charges resulting in your losses.

Bottom line, the system is flawed. A licence is not a right, but a comodoty, and should be 100 times more difficult to get than it is. The road toll would drop many fold with proper driver training, rather than the endlessly added legislate currently being dreamed up.

[steveb64]

I'm going to stop talking about this one for now since I don't know the full story. I'm only going by what I was told.


Feel like everyone is defending the insurance companies right not to pay out though

Nah. I hate the feckers... I've had far too many claims where they've wriggled out of it - and a couple where they tried to, but paid up after a short fight. It's revenue that they're interested in. That's why they go for the uninsured people (or the others insurance company if they're insured) if possible. And being uninsured means you don't have the insurance company lawyers to do the arguing... Which makes you an easier (and thus more profitable) target.

Just sometimes, they're right. Which helps keep the premiums down.

[Edbear]

The very reason people study law, to get paid for taking advantage of the law in the interest of others.

I was just saying that having the correct licence means squat, it's a very cursery test. And a decent lawyer will screw you out of your cash should an offender contest his charges resulting in your losses.

Bottom line, the system is flawed. A licence is not a right, but a comodoty, and should be 100 times more difficult to get than it is. The road toll would drop many fold with proper driver training, rather than the endlessly added legislate currently being dreamed up.

I agree with you here. However, I think you'll find that it's not so much the youngsters getting their licences who are the biggest problem, it's those in their 20's who are causing the most mayhem, speeding, drinking, unwarranted, unregistered, driving outside their licence conditions, coupled with those in the older ages who are recidivist drink/drug drivers.

No-one would argue that there are far too many drivers who have little idea how to drive a car, so yes, a licence does not a driver make.

My point is that regardless of what one thinks of the law, they are there for a purpose and for everyone. I feel that a 35 year driving record of no accidents and a sum total of one speed camera fine, (for 61 in a 50 about ten years ago), shows that one can drive and have fun without needing to do too much lawbreaking. I admit to not always obeying the speed limit, but I also say that I do not feel the need for a detecter, nor do I worry about the HP doing their job. I don't worry about checkpoints and have no fear of hurting someone due to driving under the influence. Yes I do drink alcohol, just never when driving.

Unregistered and more so, unwarranted vehicles do bother me, as although the WOF test can't be perfect, it certainly means something and those who don't care about these things really don't care about the possibility of hurting or killing someone. Not to say that someone who generally keeps his vehicle in good condition and can forget or not notice the WOF has expired is such a person, but there are too many, who simply couldn't care less. These ones need their butts kicked, hard!

[Astrocat]

Who are you calling a girl smartarse? Looking back through your posts its all coming back to me, you’re the guy with the hot VTR that wasn’t fast enough for you. Then you got bitchy to all and sundry just prior to riding into the side of a car. Your replacement was then going to be a Busa or ZX12. Nice form.

Yeah, i got all hothead about the VTR not being fast enough, so what fag. I ended up getting something with a lot more stonk and loved it. If you read the thread properly, i wasnt even going fast when i hit the Lexus. Could have happened to anyone. So back at ya