Braking in the wet

[Big Dog]

How about a cable/rod operated single pot rear disc? Don't have awful hydraulic systems weighing a tonne and requiring lots of maintenance, and getting in the way of proper feel and linear application.

Prolly because to supply sufficient pressure we need hydraulic assistance. Rods don't exert pressure round corners very efficiently or consistently.

No need to panic though, you too can experience the joy of spending ours practicing your braking to the point you still have plenty of feel and you have sufficient confidence that you can deal with it if you get it wrong.

Shit I managed a 20m unintentional rear wheel lockup the other day. Only shifted down one gear instead of two (lazy I know) going around a corner into a different street. As I got off the clutch I was too slow off the brake and locked the rear just as I tipped in.
I identified my best chance of survival focused on that, stood the bike up, got off the brake (hard to take your foot off it when you are using your knee to hold on to the tank for dear life). Trickled to a halt in my exit zone made sure there were no cars coming, dropped a u turn, waved to spectators and carried on.

Was I scared? Not really. Pretty fucking wrapped that all that practice wet and dry paid for itself.

[Ixion]

How about a cable/rod operated single pot rear disc? Don't have awful hydraulic systems weighing a tonne and requiring lots of maintenance, and getting in the way of proper feel and linear application.

I still have that momentary Jesus H. Christ moment when first applying front brakes in the wet, despite a change to some modern pads. Hadn't heard the comment regarding old stainless steel discs; I'd say that's the issue with mine. Not really an issue, I've learned to brush the water beforehand, as written above.

Rear drum brake still works perfectly, day, night, wet, dry, hot, cold. Relining the shoes was cheaper than new pads for the front disc. Don't remember having to rebuild it, or bleed the hydraulic fluid. Funny that.

Mechanical disks have been tried. Early Lambrettas had them as did something called the Honda Nighthawk 250. and others.

The problem is that a disk brake needs a LOT more application pressure than a drum brake. This is because the drum brake utilises a self servo trick - the rotation of the drum drags the shoes harder and harder against it. So all you need to do (in theory) is provide enough force to get the process started.

A disk brake has no self servo action , so the pressure applied by the linkages has to be much greater.

Which leads to stretched cables, flexing rods and such like.

[Big Dog]

Mechanical disks have been tried. Early Lambrettas had them as did something called the Honda Nighthawk 250. and others.

The problem is that a disk brake needs a LOT more application pressure than a drum brake. This is because the drum brake utilises a self servo trick - the rotation of the drum drags the shoes harder and harder against it. So all you need to do (in theory) is provide enough force to get the process started.

A disk brake has no self servo action , so the pressure applied by the linkages has to be much greater.

Which leads to stretched cables, flexing rods and such like.

You make it sound so much prettier.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

I know there are threads about that and I've read them, just sharing my experience here...

The main thing I find in wet weather riding is to be slow and methodical and smooth movements...

• Applying brakes evenly not just grabbing a fist full of front brakes.
• No sudden movements like flicking your bike into corners (if you stuff it up in the dry then in the wet...)
• Trust your tyres... (unless you know they are shit in the wet... then get new tyres).
• Ride to the conditions and your ability.

Remember in the wet your stopping distance is more than normal, no matter how good a rider you are.

[delusionz]

I'd just like to add that in emergency braking hold off on the downshift unless you preempt the need to slow down and revmatch the next gear down beforehand. Changing down while using the rear brake only adds to the lockup effect.

Also if you look ahead and be prepared to slow down for anything that might cross your path you'll generally avoid emergency braking situations which is the best method of braking in general, wet or dry.

Wet is only a test to see if you can perform well when the conditions are less forgiving.

[007XX]

I'd just like to add that in emergency braking hold off on the downshift unless you preempt the need to slow down and revmatch the next gear down beforehand. Changing down while using the rear brake only adds to the lockup effect.

Also if you look ahead and be prepared to slow down for anything that might cross your path you'll generally avoid emergency braking situations which is the best method of braking in general, wet or dry.

Wet is only a test to see if you can perform well when the conditions are less forgiving.

Most definitely agree with this, especially with the holding off on the downshift. I found this out rather clearly on my VTR as being a Vtwin, she does let me know quick smart when I'm not using the brakes properly.

I really don't mind riding in the wet (and no, I'm not being a show off),as I just forced myself earlier on in my riding to go out there during conditions I wasn't feeling that confident with. Like riding at night is another one.

Sure, I'm no faster than during daytime, or when it's dry, but I like being able to ride the same rather than go slower...

It is all about being as smooth as a baby's bottom...nothing rough in the wet

[The Pastor]

Having no confidence probably makes you a smart rider :-)

Wrong It makes you a dead rider.

[madandy]

way to bring it back from summer RM.

[johnnyflash]

Wrong It makes you a dead rider.

Not true, just means he doesnt exceed his limits, that makes him smarter than the rider who thinks he knows it all :-)

[Skyryder]

Have not read all posts so may have been said.

The road is more slipperey at the start of rain due to dust on the road surface.
Dust and water will cause planing. It is not untll the rain has 'washed' off the dust that you can brake in relative safety.

Braking prodcedure should not change too much in either wet or dry conditions and that is to brake when bike is upright and not angled as in the bend. However having said that wet weather braking requires more control with both front and back brakes in unison. Too much of one or the other can cause the bike to lock and slew. Not a nice feeling even if you do manage to stay up. But if both are applied in unison each will cancell the other out and prevent locking up.

In the wet I rarely use my brakes other than for minor adjustments. I much prefer engine braking and rely on the engine revs for 'traction.'

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Most definitely agree with this, especially with the holding off on the downshift. I found this out rather clearly on my VTR as being a Vtwin, she does let me know quick smart when I'm not using the brakes properly.

Yep if you brake and then down shift you can come to grief real fast. Guzzies have have a real sidekick in the rear if you down shift into 5000 revs and up. But you can 'feather' the brakes if need be at the upper revs safely and downshift to maintain revs and tyre traction if need be.
Bottomline on this, just make sure you do not have to hit the brakes hard in the wet.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Not true, just means he doesnt exceed his limits, that makes him smarter than the rider who thinks he knows it all :-)

Sorry ol' son I'm Rengade on this. It's not about exceeding limits. Most riders do not exceed their limits. It's why most riders survive. Lack of confidence is caused by 'fear.' That's the kicker.


Skyryder

[The Pastor]

Yep if you brake and then down shift you can come to grief real fast. Guzzies have have a real sidekick in the rear if you down shift into 5000 revs and up. But you can 'feather' the brakes if need be at the upper revs safely and downshift to maintain revs and tyre traction if need be.
Bottomline on this, just make sure you do not have to hit the brakes hard in the wet.


Skyryder

Thats what blippings for?

[scumdog]

So, why such a large (and heavy) brake ? A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so there is no point in having a brake that can provide more retardation than the tyre can transmit. .

Because in the twisty bits your brakes get a good work-out and a smaller disc may start to fade??

[dpex]

I set out this morning from Auck. Went to Rotorua, then Tuaranga, then back to Auck, with a few ten minutes stops on the way. Just as Penrose hove into my view some tit decided to break down in the middle of the motorway. Notwithstanding, I'd just spent nearly seven hours at the helm, mostly at 100ks+

By penrose I was getting tired and sore. I knew my concentration was way low, so I worked hard at keeping it up. Suddenly, the dude in front locked up his brakes. My frozen fingers just got to the front brake. Pump-lock/skid-release. Pump-lock/skid-release. Now ping left, through the gap.

All this happened in under three seconds. Yet I came to a halt alongside the dude who had locked up his brakes ahead of me, and whose car was now giving the car in front a bit of nose-to-tail massage.

We humans are slow creatures. Most of what we do incredibly quickly is stuff we either practice (actually) or practice actually and do a lot of imagining.

I can't say how many hours I've layed in bed, imagining that manuvre. And I have practiced it many times. Tonight, just when I was cold, sore, stiff, tired, and way down on concentration, the actual and head-practice saved my arse.

I recommend all bikers practice various manouvres in their minds as often as possible. This lays down a auto-response programme which triggers when your brain ain't working anywhere near as fast as your reflexes.