Is going from a 250 to a 1000 too much?

[madandy]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=13682

[jrandom]

Not all IL4 thous are bred alike.

The '07 R1 is an absolute pussycat and, out of the box, handles oodles better than any stock GSX-R1000. Oodles better. I guarantee no stock SV, 650 or otherwise, would be spanking one of those in the twisties.

SVs are nice enough, but they're budget bikes. They just don't have the quality suspension that new 600s do. Bear in mind that those who win races on SV650s have to spend a lot of money to get their bikes going that fast.

Anyway, it's all about what turns you on. Just ride and decide, serious4, ride and decide.



And don't forget the mighty GSX-R750, or naked options like the ER-6.

[Ixion]

Everyone who asks that question always says the same. "I only want it for the torque. I've got heaps of self control blah blah blah". Yeah. Right. Good beer, Tui.

But, assuming that you really are the exception to the rule, and really do think you "only want it for the torque", that statement is two reasons not to do it.

One, because the torque is exactly what is going to get you into trouble.

Realistically even the most demented of litre bike riders are going to spend very little time on the road at speeds faster than a fast 250. Say, 160+. And the 600s are often very nearly as fast as the 1000s. In some cases, faster.

So the *speed* of the 1000 is not the reason to be wary. What WILL get you into trouble is exactly that torque that you use as your justification.

Snap the throttle wide open mid corner on a 250 , and you'll be fine. Not a good thing to do but unlikely to lead to much pain. Do the same on a 600 , and things may be very, um, interesting. And you may or may not emerge in one piece. But, you've got a reasonable chance. Even think about doing it on a litre bike and welcome to a whole world of pain. It's called traction budget. And a 1000 is almost always overspent in every department.

The second reason not to, is that you don't understand that .

There may be a few folk with real world reasons why they do need that torque. Like you weigh 150kg, your partner weighs the same, and you plan to tour the Southern Alps, with 500 kg of luggage, towing a caravan up Mr Cook.

But the real reason for 99.9% of people who ask the question is "I want a really really really really FAST bike so I can show how shit hot I am". The 1000s won't do that, and you'll likely get hurt in the process.

Personally, having tried the SV1000 I reckon that a decent 750 is faster. The SV is a good old man's bike. For people like me. But if you're less than 50 don't bother. It won't be as fast as you think, and the fastest trip you'll make will be in the back of the ambulance.

[Swoop]

Go for the litre bike and spend the following:
1: Purchase price of bike,
2: Same amount again for insurance cover...
3: Same amount again for mr ...

[Jiminy]

I'm barely ahead of you license-wise, but here is my experience. All those magic numbers (hp, torque, cc, weight) only matter so much once on the bike.

After I passed my full, a few riders I met insisted on how crazy I was to consider a 800-1000cc bike. But then, I tried a few bikes and realised how bikes with similar specs can feel very, very different. It's not just about torque or displacement, it's also about the engine personality and how you feel on the bike.

Btw, I ride cruisers. I would not have considered a 1000cc sporty bike as a first upgrade, but that's just me. My 2c.

[Matt Bleck]

Just get it... it may kill you... it may not

[serious4]

Everyone has made some fair comments. All of which I greatly appreciate the thought or lack there of ha ha...

There are some wise heads on this forum with a lot of experience on a lot of different bikes. I'll stop there cause my nose is getting a bit too brown...

Anyway, in summary, in the short time this thread has been here, I now have a lot of things to (re)consider.

Personally, having tried the SV1000 I reckon that a decent 750 is faster. The SV is a good old man's bike. For people like me. But if you're less than 50 don't bother. It won't be as fast as you think, and the fastest trip you'll make will be in the back of the ambulance.

I'm no where near 50 but I am after an old mans bike. I'm not after wicked power bands of hypo 4's or twins but smooth power curves which the larger capacity bikes seem to deliver more than the slightly smally ones.

Go for the litre bike and spend the following:
1: Purchase price of bike,
2: Same amount again for insurance cover...
3: Same amount again for mr ...

Factor in all the other costs, such as insurance and consumables (tyres, chains, sprockets, etc.). Can you really afford the bigger bike?

This is one of the many things I'll have to look at. Hopefully the insurance won't be too bad for a 30 odd year old.

The '07 R1 is an absolute pussycat and, out of the box, handles oodles better than any stock GSX-R1000. Oodles better. I guarantee no stock SV, 650 or otherwise, would be spanking one of those in the twisties.

Good to see a wee bit of debate as well. The R1's are mean. Just not my cup of tea as I'm pretty sure they'd induce some serious inappropriate behaviour for the public roads.

It's not just about torque or displacement, it's also about the engine personality and how you feel on the bike.

Btw, I ride cruisers. I would not have considered a 1000cc sporty bike as a first upgrade, but that's just me. My 2c.

absolutely. Fair call.

[snot]

Just get it... it may kill you... it may not

+1
Yeah I know a guy that went from a 400 to a litre bike and he's still alive.
remember the throttle has various positions between on and off

[beyond]

Ixion is a very wise "young" man

Always has very sensible advice.

My thoughts: NEVER try to ride a bike to it's limits until you have covered at least 5,000kms on it and preferably 10,000kms.
I keep telling people that and especially newbies and have mentioned it to some young uns who are no longer with us

Any bike needs to be treated with respect and once you have ridden it enough and slowly tested it's envelope you will be comfortable with it and will know how it will react under certian situations. So, if you can control that right hand then sure, go for a litre bike.

If you think an SV1000 will beat a IL4 in the twisties and you want torque, it's time you rode a GSX1400

[PrincessBandit]

Snap the throttle wide open mid corner on a 250 , and you'll be fine. Not a good thing to do but unlikely to lead to much pain. Do the same on a 600 , and things may be very, um, interesting. .

I can relate to that in the reverse. Having been very careful with throttle twist on the 650 for the few weeks I've been riding it I recently had to take the GN out for a blat (yeah yeah, I know not all 250s are equal, and the GN is probably waaaaaay down the list) and found myself having to really work the right hand in a way that I'd already "forgotten". Shaizer (a la Gold Member), very glad I didn't treat the Bandit the same way or I'd have been in really deep doo doo. Even now, I'm wary of sneezing, for goodness sake, while riding the Bandit.
I think 600/650 is a good compromise unless you are absolutely sure that your sense of self preservation and self control etc. etc. are fully functional!

[jrandom]

If you think an SV1000 will beat a IL4 in the twisties and you want torque, it's time you rode a GSX1400

Shhhhh!

I think we should stop telling people about them, or the gratifying astonishment that one gets to wallow in when one's GSX1400 spanks sprotbikes through the twisties might dry up.

[beyond]

Shhhhh!

I think we should stop telling people about them, or the gratifying astonishment that one gets to wallow in when one's GSX1400 spanks sprotbikes through the twisties might dry up.

Shit, didn't think of that

[Ixion]

...
I'm no where near 50 but I am after an old mans bike. I'm not after wicked power bands of hypo 4's or twins but smooth power curves which the larger capacity bikes seem to deliver more than the slightly smally ones.

,,,

Nope, y' don't get it. It's not about power bands (arguably none of the big IL4s have a powerband, the power curve is pretty linear. By two stroke standards anyway). Powerband is all about revs. Roll the throttle open , no matter how gently, 1000rpm under the power band on a two smoker, and you best be upright and facing straightish. But even then , it won't be the rear wheel that will be the worry. Because two strokes just don't produce that sort of torque.(Yeah, I know RG500, GT750 - humour me, I talking generic).

But matters are different on a big four stroke. Especially a V twin. Doesn't matter what the revs are , if you're just a wee bit too abrupt with the twistgrip, the rear will like as not spin up. Now, that's not a big drama, necessarily. Even in a corner. Happens to the GP guys all the time, and they just deal with it.Mostly. But, it took them a lot of experience time to learn how to deal with it. And you don't have time to think about it, it's got to be automatic. Or the next thing you know, you'll be wondering why you're prescribing a nice arc over the telephone wires.

This is something that I'd be pretty confident you have *no* experience of on a VTR250. So you can either that experience the (hopefully) more gentle way, that harms only your nervous system and your underwear. Or the hard and painful way.

And no, you're not after an old mans' bike. Since you say

...
Prefer crusing on the straights and chewing the twisty stuff up.
...

Now, the thing about old mens' bikes, like SV1000s and crusiers , is that they are for old men. Old enough that they're no longer interested in "chewing the twisty stuff up". Because if you want to do that on a thou, you better have that experience. Us old men, we just go slow in the corners . (And in my case, slow in the straights, too).

But, end of the day, it's no-one's call but your own. And you didn't really come here for advice, did you? Rather, looking for validation of the decision you've already made. Which is yours, and yours alone, to make.

Go for it. You may survive, some do. In which case, good stuff. If not, well, my Gene-O-Kleen shares go up again, which is also good.

[heap rider]

my advice is stick with something smaller first like 600 plenty of power and still easy enough to blow your license away , in saying that a 1000 cc machine will only go as fast as you twist the throttle , but in my opinion and experiance you need the maturity to know when and where ,and what kind of trouble you can get yourself into if you f@#k it up..

[serious4]

Now, the thing about old mens' bikes, like SV1000s and crusiers , is that they are for old men. Old enough that they're no longer interested in "chewing the twisty stuff up". Because if you want to do that on a thou, you better have that experience

Yeah I'm definitely lacking experience, but as many have said maturity plays a big part in all things.
At this point nothing is set in concrete!