The Bum Steer

[Maha]

All kidding aside, I have often wondered if anyone was ever taught how to countersteer by having someone sit behind them as closely to them as possible, and act as a second rider?

Na, it aint like a golf swing...gotta teach ya'self something Miss 'V'....

[Kickaha]

just like saying that countersteering is the ONLY way to turn a bike...

I'm quite willing to pay for a afternoon at Ruapuna and have you demonstrate a few laps of the track without countersteering, all we'll have to do is find a way to lock your handlebars in the straight ahead position because I really doubt you'll be able to manage it

You need to be at a certain speed before counter steering is really noticable.

Its noticeable at any speed if you're looking for it

[007XX]

You need to be at a certain speed before counter steering is really noticable.

Ok, what speed would you say? in the interest of the debate, of course...

Now that you mention it, no.

But what the hell, in the name of science I'll let you sit close and teach me m'dear.

you're a pal, I knew I'd be able to count on your selfless nature...

Actually, that is a great idea. You're not really a woman, are you?

Mebbe, mebbe not... I do happen to have seriosu thoughts from time to time, you know...

I have done just that, but just sitting on the bike, not moving. Simulating the correlation between push/lean...push harder/ lean more...feet on ground to stop the inevitable...works really well.

Exactly my point...teaching someone new to the game is not always about speed. You got to learn to crawl before you can walk.

[MSTRS:Me]

Argument is healthy...makes for a great aftermath!

No, you're thinking (there's that word again) of abuse...
Just for you...
Counter steering can be looked upon as a term meaning steering counter to direction of required turn...in other words to go left you turn the bars slightly to the right, and counter to expectation that makes the bike lean to the left and it will turn to the left. Vikivirki for turning right. Of course, one must be travelling at or above approx 20kph for this to work...at low speed a turn of the bars will see you going in that direction.
It sounds confusing, no?

[Hitcher]

I have observed that countersteering threads inevitably end in tears and that informed, scientifically-sound discussions about a basic physical principle are impossible.

Therefore, in the interests of public safety and sanity, I am proposing a Kiwi Biker site rule that bans both the phenomenum that is "countersteering" and any related discussion thereof.

The Earth is flat and the sun revolves around it. Get over it.

[Maha]

It sounds confusing, no?

Bum Steering/Counter Steering?

Start on feet stearing John, that'll really confuse the issue....

[Ocean1]

Of course, one must be travelling at or above approx 20kph for this to work...at low speed a turn of the bars will see you going in that direction.
It sounds confusing, no?

I wonder haw much of the trouble sometimes reported by beginers with slow speed turns is within that transitional stage, between "steer where you want to go" and "countersteer speeds".

Don't really notice the transition myself, must have a play to find out where it is on the Buell and see it it feels dodgy...

[Mikkel]

I'm quite willing to pay for a afternoon at Ruapuna and have you demonstrate a few laps of the track without countersteering, all we'll have to do is find a way to lock your handlebars in the straight ahead position because I really doubt you'll be able to manage it

Bloody hell, when will people actually start reading what they're quoting?

Point was just that: saying that countersteering is the ONLY way to turn a bike is obviously not correct since people here have already shared how they can make the bike turn by weight transfer.
Of course you want to be using countersteering to move your bike around precisely and effectively - but it is a combined effort! You'll never be able to follow Casey Stoner if you don't both countersteer and move your weight around.

Also, there's a big big difference between not counter steering and locking your handlebars down. The steering geometry of the bike will cause the handlebar to turn if you lean over the bike. If you prevent this action then I agree that you'd be pretty hard pressed to make your bike turn much faster than an oiltanker.


But hey, it's no surprise that all of these things are pretty damn hard to understand... After all - it is classical mechanics. Or rocket science if you will

[onearmedbandit]

The Earth is flat and the sun revolves around it. Get over it.

I knew it!!!!!

[kiwifruit]

whats countersteering?

[Badjelly]

whats countersteering?

Oh no, not again!

[Hitcher]

whats countersteering?

It no longer exists. See post #110 above.

[Maha]

whats countersteering?

There are alot of Counter Steerer's at New World?....

[Ocean1]

The Earth is flat and the sun revolves around it. Get over it.

Fark, we'll have to come up with another theory now...

[onearmedbandit]

Also, there's a big big difference between not counter steering and locking your handlebars down. The steering geometry of the bike will cause the handlebar to turn if you lean over the bike. If you prevent this action then I agree that you'd be pretty hard pressed to make your bike turn much faster than an oiltanker.

Call me an ignoramus if you like, but surely when you move your body weight and cause the bike to tip in without your hand/s on the bars (which I do regularly) the bike itself is countersteering. Just because you are not directly putting the action in through the bars yourself does not mean the action is not happening. I dare, nay double-dare, anyone to successfully turn a bike at speed by using bodyweight only on a bike with locked bars. Oh that's right, Keith Code already did that for us. But still the debate rages on.