Excluding based on sex...

[Finn]

Several reasons why us blokes shouldn't really care about a woman's only KB ride...

1. Hours upon hours of phones calls the night before... "What are you going to wear? Where are we going to eat? Make sure you don't talk to that bitch, you know the one bla, bla, bla.

2. Ride starts at 10:00am but of course EVERYBODY IS FRIGGEN LATE!!!

3. Right, finally when everybody is present they continue to talk for two hours about absolutely nothing. Just as they are ready to leave they realise they better get gas. Some of them need help with this.

4. 1:45pm, they depart. Riding down the motorway, some commuters confuse them for a funeral procession because of their lack of speed and the fact that most motorcycles lights are always on. Others think they are a ladies motorcycle gang evident by all the "L" symbols.

5. 2:00pm and only half of them arrive at their destination. The others got lost. They don't seem to realise this as they are too excited to be at the Mall.

6. 2:00pm - onwards - 2,780 txts later, they track down their missing friends.

7. 5:00pm - The shopping is over and they all have to hurry home to catch up on the housework they missed out on.

8. 5:30 pm onwards - record numbers of txts about what an amazing ride. We should do it again...

[Jiminy]

Side point, as I am in the golfing industry you see it all the time. The week is pretty structured like this.
(...)

Sounds nothing more to me than most marketing campaigns based on age, sex, social group, origin, citizenship, and so forth. Unfair in a way, but at least there might be more ladies around, which might be a good thing.

FFS ... that's what men were saying when all of the men-only institutions were being taken to Court. They all lost their cases too by the way. You have so missed the point!

If a few blokes were to organise a men-only ride, and this stays an exception (as in: ladies still have plenty of rides to join), then I would qualify any application of the Human Rights Act against it as a PC feminist extremist stupid action. I'm just worried that there might be some people stupid enough to initiate such an action against the rides.

Repost....

Ahem, I already fear the day I will have been on this site for so long that I'll recognise all the new posts like if they had been written in the good ol' days . Obviously, there was still a fair amount of debate that needed to be exposed...

P.s this is becoming a very wellington based thread .

Is that because we are used to debate about political matters?

[cowboyz]

True feminists (the guy hating types) don't want to be equal, they want to be equal when it suits them. Equal pay, yes. Equal child custody, no.

Let them have their own rides, that's no problem. But it's a bit shitty they can have a whole venue, such as a racetrack, reserved for themselves and leaving us out of it, especially if it can be one of the few chances some guys can get to the track. Maybe a race for just girls on the trackday possibly.

Can't say I'm too keen on 'men only' whatever in retaliation.

ok. women organising woman only rides on the road doesnt really bother me I wouldnt show up to make a point. Plenty of other roads that are readily availiable to ride. But taking up a trackday, is a different story.

Its OK there is NO secret womens club. I am sure Scummy will allay your fears.

I just didnt want the thread going off on a tangent and digressing from what was being said. Mr Cowboyz....question for you....have you ever been on a track where you said OK I am going in the slow group. Then Skidmark turns up..... I HAVE!. And dammit I dont want to be on a track with over testerone boys thinking they own the world ......

ok. I understand what you are saying but dont understand why it is gender specific. A recent trackday there was a couple of "faster" riders carving up the slow group. They got a slap on the hand and it was all good after that. There were men and woman on the track at the time. All of the men who were behaving themselves and enjoying the track were behaving themselves and enjoying the track.

It is not so much i want to go on this one ride baddly, i want to go on rides with as many people as i can that will ride safely. I have found that a girl is a lot more likely to ride safely.... because that is the way they are...

completely disagree. I have spat the dummy at both woman and men who have ridden dangerously around me. The notion that girls are more likely to ride safely because they are girls is offensive and just plain arrogant.

A bit like the Gixxer only track days, cause of course *they* feel more comfortable without any CBR's around !!

Especially from 2008 on.....

Hmmmmmmmm...... Let me see. Suzuki trackdays, yamaha trackdays, womans trackdays...... As a guy on a kwaka I arent doing too well here.

NB: The zooki and yammy trackdays do not EXCLUDE other bikes. You just have to pay more and understandably so as the company sponsering the event.

Not sure why this is such a big deal. Every minority wants a bit of time together every now and then. And women riders sure are a minority amongst bikers.

If 90% of bikers were women, then we would be organising men-only rides every now and then, just the same (and ladies would be moaning about it, just the same). Women-only rides barely have any impact on blokes chances of group riding, but if MOST of the rides involving guys were men-only, there wouldn't be many women riding anymore.

I don't see it as a women against men thing, even less a PC thing. After all, aren't there hogs-only rides? Or sport bikes only track days?

Let the ladies ride on their own from time to time. That might encourage more ladies to ride and later join our rides. Myself, I'd love to see a more balanced population amongst bikers.

As I said above, I have no problem with woman getting together, or any like-minded people getting together to decide to ride together on the road. You are not excluding anyone in the process really as anyone can go ride another road. Taking up a trackday reserved just for woman is stupid because no one has answered my original question.
IF there were to be a girl only trackday to make girls feel safer on the track would there be exclusion for girls who are fast? Or would the girls who are slow be excluded because it would make the fast girls uncomfortable holding them up?

[CookMySock]

You dont get it, we do not see you as a threat and untill this chages you will have problems. [....]

Zactly!

DB

[CookMySock]

I would feel very hurt indeed if I turned up to join in a "ladies ride" and I was taken aside and told politely "no men, sorry." There would be more than a single tear shed on my back home, solo. It is unlikely I would repeat such a "mistake."

I'm really surprised about the animosity in this thread.

Girls, I don't think boys would like to come along to do "some girl thing", if thats what the point of the ride is, but if its just a "ride" then the boys must be able to STFU and sit back while the ladies have their top biscuit. If boys can't do this then they get the "explanation" (probably by me!) or they get excluded.

I love being out with the girls. I'll behave where I should (I know when), and I'll play up where I 'should' (hrm, still finding those boundaries - but thats half of my appeal).

DB

[Okey Dokey]

Not sure why this is such a big deal. Every minority wants a bit of time together every now and then. And women riders sure are a minority amongst bikers.

If 90% of bikers were women, then we would be organising men-only rides every now and then, just the same (and ladies would be moaning about it, just the same). Women-only rides barely have any impact on blokes chances of group riding, but if MOST of the rides involving guys were men-only, there wouldn't be many women riding anymore.

I don't see it as a women against men thing, even less a PC thing. After all, aren't there hogs-only rides? Or sport bikes only track days?

Let the ladies ride on their own from time to time. That might encourage more ladies to ride and later join our rides. Myself, I'd love to see a more balanced population amongst bikers.

Thanks, Jiminy. You have expressed my thoughts precisely and made this my easiest post ever. I find this an unexpectedly "hot" issue, but then I haven't done much group riding.

[McDuck]

It is not so much i want to go on this one ride baddly, i want to go on rides with as many people as i can that will ride safely. I have found that a girl is a lot more likely to ride safely.... because that is the way they are...

completely disagree. I have spat the dummy at both woman and men who have ridden dangerously around me. The notion that girls are more likely to ride safely because they are girls is offensive and just plain arrogant.

Allow me to rephrase. The sort of rides these girls do is the sort of rides I want to do. Just because they are woman dont mean they will not do something stupid but it is less likely because of the people involved here.

[MsKABC]

So are you saying that men should never be allowed "Boys nights out"?

[Monamie]

...speaking as an `L-plater' and being of the `fairer' sex.. I mean of course `female'..I personally think it is unfair to limit a public event to one sex or the other.
I love the road rides with the guys. I have learnt valuable lessons from both guys and girls on our rides and would expect to be treated as `one of the gang' rather than one of the girls or L-platers. (I even brushed off Garry H's comment-`no more ladies on 250's'.....it was said in a very high, pained type of voice...I have my suspicions)..he'll keep. I would also quite happliy do a `ladies' ride-more so to meet more lady bikers as Mrs K has mentioned.

However-I have never been on a track and would be more inclined to go if it was learners only. Why...well basically I don't want to look like a dick in front of either sex. Track days should be planned to have learners-or as they do- `slow' first. I think you need the more experienced guys/gals there to show how it is done and then they are welcome to the track.
My 2c worth

[Rosie]

I've heard a little about women's dirt/trail riding training days, and I really want to go on one. They sound like they have a really supportive, encouraging atmosphere, with other people of a similar age and riding ability (and fear threshold) to myself.
I don't know any women who ride off road, and I'd love to meet some.

And I can't quite understand why people would feel offended by this

[cowboyz]

...speaking as an `L-plater' and being of the `fairer' sex.. I mean of course `female'..I personally think it is unfair to limit a public event to one sex or the other.
I love the road rides with the guys. I have learnt valuable lessons from both guys and girls on our rides and would expect to be treated as `one of the gang' rather than one of the girls or L-platers. (I even brushed off Garry H's comment-`no more ladies on 250's'.....it was said in a very high, pained type of voice...I have my suspicions)..he'll keep. I would also quite happliy do a `ladies' ride-more so to meet more lady bikers as Mrs K has mentioned.

However-I have never been on a track and would be more inclined to go if it was learners only. Why...well basically I don't want to look like a dick in front of either sex. Track days should be planned to have learners-or as they do- `slow' first. I think you need the more experienced guys/gals there to show how it is done and then they are welcome to the track.
My 2c worth

thats what the slow group is for. Plenty of rider training going on at trackdays. I think the point about not wanting to look bad (really not digging at you here so take it for what its worth) is a valid and common excuse for not attending trackdays. The thing is, no one notices. And if they do they simply dont care. People are busy doing their own thing on trackdays than picking on others. The ones that get themselves noticed are the ones being dicks.

I've heard a little about women's dirt/trail riding training days, and I really want to go on one. They sound like they have a really supportive, encouraging atmosphere, with other people of a similar age and riding ability (and fear threshold) to myself.
I don't know any women who ride off road, and I'd love to meet some.

And I can't quite understand why people would feel offended by this

based on sex? If I was learning to ride I would feel quite dejected if I showed up to a newbie ride and got told that I couldnt ride because I have a penis. Moreso, annoying that a possible trackday I could attend and not being allowed to for the same reason. Point was made about suzuki and yamaha but at least they dont exclude others.

[karla]

Segregation based on gender is about as distasteful to me as segregation based on colour. How many of us would be moved to action if they had a "white-only" day? It is divisive and seperatist, rather than unifying around a common factor - in this case, for example, we are all lovers of biking, and therefore equal in biker law. The differences between us are there to be enjoyed, not to divide us. We all gotta learn to get along together. I'm so burnt out on gender wars.

[Monamie]

thats what the slow group is for. Plenty of rider training going on at trackdays. I think the point about not wanting to look bad (really not digging at you here so take it for what its worth) is a valid and common excuse for not attending trackdays. The thing is, no one notices. And if they do they simply dont care. People are busy doing their own thing on trackdays than picking on others. The ones that get themselves noticed are the ones being dicks.

.

To true. I think the days of `ladies only' are on the cards. Most of us don't want to be singled out-just like guys don't want to. Although....I would still rather go to the restroom with Chanceyy than you.

[surfchick]

There was one earlier post that noted that men outnumber women in participation in riding motorcycles. I have answered this query before about the girlie rides - but I'll try and do this as thoughfully and succinctly as possible. Also to address this issue as something broader than bikes...

I have been close to organisations, like the Irish Surfing Association - whom I surfed for at the World Surfing Games in Durban in 2002, who want to increase women's participation in both surfing and water-sport generally. So one of the most practical events they came up with to compliment the national surfing curcuit was to run two annual women's surf days, with sponsorship and BBQ's and banter and coaches etc etc to attract women into the sport. Increasing participation is normally the theme behind these kinds of events - and celebrating the sport by focusing on it (Manufacturer track days draw together those that love/use their brand etc etc - it's a very similar kind of way of focusing on particular sub-groups). It really is this simple sometimes - and there is never usually any grand masterplan about exclusions - often organisers have simply noted that women haven't picked up certain sports-or certain specialisations within sports.

A couple of things about myself I'd like to add-kiwibiker is really warm to nooobies regardless of gender- so those kinds of issues don't really come up - girls sports days are usually designed simply to get the girls out and about.

If you have never been on the receiving end of attempting to participate in something your demographic usually doesn't involve itself in it is possibly hard to distinguish between some of the approaches organisations/people take-as you will no doubt be thinking "just get on and do it like I did" - all I can say is count yourself lucky you weren't the one trying to convince two northern irish parents who couldn't swim it was a good idea to surf 12ft waves in the Atlantic ocean i hope someone finds the parallel...

[Trudes]

Hmmmmmmmm...... Let me see. Suzuki trackdays, yamaha trackdays, womans trackdays...... As a guy on a kwaka I arent doing too well here.

NB: The zooki and yammy trackdays do not EXCLUDE other bikes. You just have to pay more and understandably so as the company sponsering the event.

I don't know about the yamaha trackdays, but I was just told I couldn't take my Hornet on the track at a Suzuki trackday..... Honda riderclub trackdays are open to other makes.