Deck chairs on the Titanic

[Hitcher]

This planet is more than capable of eliminating whole civilisations and life forms. And will do so again. When it's ready.

And no doubt the next crop of humanoids will create god in their own image.

[Steam]

But he's an optimist really...

"There have been seven disasters since humans came on the earth, very similar to the one that's just about to happen. I think these events keep separating the wheat from the chaff. And eventually we'll have a human on the planet that really does understand it and can live with it properly. That's the source of my optimism."

Humans will survive, just not with our fancy civilisation we have now. The farthest back we might slide is to pre-industral levels, about the 1800's. Or the end of the pre-industral age anyway.
That's not so bad, in the long view.
The bad thing is the painful getting there, the billions dying before we stablise at at that level.
And New Zealand will likely be one of the lucky countries, far the fuck away from all the other greedy buggers for a start.

So, now that we know we're all doomed, how do we plan to survive? Individually or collectively as a nation.

[Mikkel]

This planet is more than capable of eliminating whole civilisations and life forms. And will do so again. When it's ready.

And no doubt the next crop of humanoids will also create god in their own image, again.

Indeed - and if we should manage to hold on for dear life long enough Mr. Helios will take good care of us in about 2-5 billion years... But hey, who the fuck is counting anyway?

Let's just use up the fossil fuels ASAP - then we have one thing less to worry about for approximately another 250 million years.

My ZXR250 runs exclusively on baby velociraptors!

[James Deuce]

And New Zealand will likely be one of the lucky countries, far the fuck away from all the other greedy buggers for a start.

7/8ths of the population will die if fossil fuels are removed from the equation.

NZ is NOT a good place for humans to survive in. Maori did very well in trying conditions, but populations were tiny by today's standards and nutrition was very close to borderline, missing trace elements and vitamins that we take for granted in our diet today. Our soil is rubbish for crops without wholesale fertilisation, fertiliser that requires industrial capability to produce, and your estimation of an 1800s level of civilisation cannot be realised without a solid agrarian basis. The native flora and fauna are 150 million years older than most of the plant species around the rest of the world, with only a very few, very primitive flowering plants. It's not really designed for us to live on and if Maori hadn't brought rats (kiore, I believe) and Kumara with them they wouldn't have been doing as well as they were.

NZ would become a series of isolated fishing villages in very short order.

[Steam]

...missing trace elements and vitamins that we take for granted in our diet today. Our soil is rubbish for crops without wholesale fertilisation...

Isn't that only the North Island, with all its volcanic soils? I thought the south was pretty all-right?
As for there not being enough, with the plants being so primitive and all, we have potatoes and swedes and sheep now.
And cabbages.

[scrivy]

He's too right!!

We can't stop the impending doom! Why worry about personally saving 20% etc etc, when Asia is pumping out more sprogs than we can count!! In a few more years there'll be another billion people, then another, then another, its exponential. Imagine the pollution and waste they'll all produce!!
Us saving the environment??? Yeah right!! Although it does make ya feel good........... so does a quick fifty off the wrist.....

[BIHB@0610]

I is jst gonna cuddle mies kiddikats ........ scniff.

[BIHB@0610]

He's too right!!

We can't stop the impending doom! Why worry about personally saving 20% etc etc, when Asia is pumping out more sprogs than we can count!! In a few more years there'll be another billion people, then another, then another, its exponential. Imagine the pollution and waste they'll all produce!!
Us saving the environment??? Yeah right!! Although it does make ya feel good........... so does a quick fifty off the wrist.....

Would it be incredibly poor taste to suggest that the very population expansion you decry might actually, after 250million years of decomposition and whatever other natural process occurs, turn into some more fossil fuel .... sustainability hehe. Yeah, probably is poor taste.

[James Deuce]

Isn't that only the North Island, with all its volcanic soils? I thought the south was pretty all-right?
As for there not being enough, with the plants being so primitive and all, we have potatoes and swedes and sheep now.
And cabbages.

Which will only last if someone farms and fertilises them. That requires patience, a pollination vector for seed plants, skill and the ability to tell what type of fertiliser you need for your crops without ready access to a basic chemistry set, and above all uninterrupted growing time. There's not many people with those skills left, and they'll be looking out for themselves.

The great die off in the North Island will be horrendous. The people that survive won't be sharing. The South Island isn't any better in terms of soil quality. Without constant chemical fertilisation, large scale farming won't work in NZ.

[idb]

He's too right!!

We can't stop the impending doom! Why worry about personally saving 20% etc etc, when Asia is pumping out more sprogs than we can count!! In a few more years there'll be another billion people, then another, then another, its exponential. Imagine the pollution and waste they'll all produce!!
Us saving the environment??? Yeah right!! Although it does make ya feel good........... so does a quick fifty off the wrist.....

And apparently all those extra people are making the planet heavier which will eventually cause it to drop out of its orbit and disappear into space.
Yikes!!
Better set up Moonbase Alpha as soon as possible!!!

[Ixion]

Bu tin such an 'end of world' scenario, no-one will be large scale farming. It will all be peasant , subsistence type stuff. Which has a whole different basis for fertilisation. Think seaweed, guano, dead possums, sources too small and difficult for factory farming but usable by peasants.

And , sure , the Maori had a major problem with lack of protein. But the ecology of NZ nowdays is totally different to what it was then. All those imported species. The possum alone completely changes the balance of things, high quality protein and easy to catch.

And I think you greatly underestimate the numbers of folk today who could still manage perfectly well in a subsistence farming regime. Most NZers are only a generation or two from the land. And there is still a lot of bush in NZ, a man can survive in the bush. (Hm, if ammo is no longer available that may be trickier) Sure, the cities will be abandoned, the West Coast and the Urerewas will be the desireable spots (and, as you say, coastal areas with access to marine foodstocks).

Assuming the 'disaster' is gradual , not sudden , I do not think the population loss in NZ would be that great - maybe 50% . People panic too much about these things, man is a very versatile beast.

[scrivy]

Why do pollies always fuck about with greenie shit and never deal with the fact that over-population is gunna fuck this planet??

[James Deuce]

Bu tin such an 'end of world' scenario, no-one will be large scale farming. It will all be peasant , subsistence type stuff. Which has a whole different basis for fertilisation. Think seaweed, guano, dead possums, sources too small and difficult for factory farming but usable by peasants.

And , sure , the Maori had a major problem with lack of protein. But the ecology of NZ nowdays is totally different to what it was then. All those imported species. The possum alone completely changes the balance of things, high quality protein and easy to catch.

And I think you greatly underestimate the numbers of folk today who could still manage perfectly well in a subsistence farming regime. Most NZers are only a generation or two from the land. And there is still a lot of bush in NZ, a man can survive in the bush. (Hm, if ammo is no longer available that may be trickier) Sure, the cities will be abandoned, the West Coast and the Urerewas will be the desireable spots (and, as you say, coastal areas with access to marine foodstocks).

Assuming the 'disaster' is gradual , not sudden , I do not think the population loss in NZ would be that great - maybe 50% . People panic too much about these things, man is a very versatile beast.

It will be sudden. I haven't underestimated the inability of the average person to look after themselves without electricity, shops, transport, and a kinetic projectile weapon. Don't go canvassing motorcyclists about their survival skills either. A lot of "us" have been sorted from the "chaff" already.

Subsistence farming is not romantic. You need lots of people to farm without horses or oxen (or tractors for that matter), and horses and oxen are going to be eaten. Dogs and cats too. Current paddock sizes are much too big to manage witha stick and a bucket.

Dysentery will kill probably 2/3rds of the population within the first 2-3 months. Our model of living is intensely social and without decent sanitation and even rudimentary knowledge about not shitting near rivers or streams upstream from where you drink, crowding diseases will make short work of people. Cannibalism will provide another vector for diseases. Don't suggest it won't happen. First winter in the open and people will be eating practically anything.

[James Deuce]

Why do pollies always fuck about with greenie shit and never deal with the fact that over-population is gunna fuck this planet??

No it isn't. 6 billion people could live in Texas and still have enough room for a 1.5 acre section. Enough for a cow, some chickens and a big veggie garden. The acquisition of valueless, virtual capital by the few exploiting the many is fucking the planet.

[homer]

This is quite cool

Cause hed be very very correct

all you have to do is think about it ...
think why should we and if we recycle and save this and save that and dont have nuke power

think of whos making the bucks
were just force fed it all and its BS

Who got rich out of Y2K

nothing was going to happen ,but we were led to believe it

the hole in the ozone layer moves ,it dosnt stay in one place
and its been predicted that the nort pole will eventually move to sit just west of britten

Oil companys also make us believe that oils running out
is it ?.....like when
its bs as well, pushes the price up cause its a pressure thing