650 pro twins...

[Robert Taylor]

How does one learn these suspension setup skills? Presumably a lot of it is from the "suck it and see" approach? Ooooh what happens if I turn this?

Surely there must be some background material available so we can find out whats happening, then what the controls do, then how altering them will affect performance. Then try it out and see how it works.... I think its called the scientific method: develop a hypothesis, test it, evaluate conclusions....

I will comment back on this when I have some more time.

[GSVR]

I class my self as one of the vocal few. But I would have liked a one set of rims rule (no wets), a control tyre (perhaps class sponsorship), standard rear subframes only, no tyre warmers, fairings only OEM replica .....

Basically like Streetstock but with a few neccessary mods.

Im still fine with the rules as they are but from the veiwpoint of someone looking at going racing for the first time theres quite a bit more to it than just wire up your sump plug fit a catch bottle and go racing.

The rules as they are are great for National level racing but it appears to me over 90% of all racing in NZ is at Club level and guys with fast club bikes opting not to do the nationals.

[johnsv650]

hi,
rules for protwins are standard rear subframes, no light aluminium ones.....standard means standard......

[GSVR]

hi,
rules for protwins are standard rear subframes, no light aluminium ones.....standard means standard......

Thanks I just read and the rules and theres only mention of the front subframe that makes sense as not everyone buys a bike with a front fairing.

[Ivan]

Were are the rules I have been trying to find them

[svr]

I stand to correct you because having been consulted re suspension when the rules were drawn up I personally recommended that only emulators and springs would be allowed in the forks ( for damper rod type forks, SV650 etc ) and that aftermarket cartridges would be strictly prohibited. This was mindful of keeping the costs at a reasonable level. I therefore stress that there is no divergence of view with the mainstream, and in fact the views expressed against any such mods at all are in fact coming from a vocal minority.

Sorry Robert maybe a misunderstanding - I actually agree with the level of mods for forks (so thanks for advising that way - altough emulators seem to make bugger-all difference) My general slant was that the generall costs of motoracing are elitist, prohibitive and exclude actual and potential talent - Maybe the `Kiwi way' (3rd worldish?) is to have hordes of ex-junior motoxers / bucket / 150 racers etc out there banging handlebars on $6k bikes i.e. having a go on e-bay sv's and finding out if they've got what it takes? We've got to get them out there which to my mind is the primary function of the class.

[FROSTY:Me]

BINGO--A class to get the fire in their belly about racing.

[Robert Taylor]

I class my self as one of the vocal few. But I would have liked a one set of rims rule (no wets), a control tyre (perhaps class sponsorship), standard rear subframes only, no tyre warmers, fairings only OEM replica .....

Basically like Streetstock but with a few neccessary mods.

Im still fine with the rules as they are but from the veiwpoint of someone looking at going racing for the first time theres quite a bit more to it than just wire up your sump plug fit a catch bottle and go racing.

The rules as they are are great for National level racing but it appears to me over 90% of all racing in NZ is at Club level and guys with fast club bikes opting not to do the nationals.

Some of what you said in paragraph 1 makes sense.

Road racing is irrefutably a technical sport and if people want everything to be dead easy then there are other sporting codes, cold hard reality.

With respect to racing the nationals I think there is one factor that is a major pain in the butt that automatically rules out a lot of riders....the cost of getting to and fro over that piece of water.

[Robert Taylor]

Sorry Robert maybe a misunderstanding - I actually agree with the level of mods for forks (so thanks for advising that way - altough emulators seem to make bugger-all difference) My general slant was that the generall costs of motoracing are elitist, prohibitive and exclude actual and potential talent - Maybe the `Kiwi way' (3rd worldish?) is to have hordes of ex-junior motoxers / bucket / 150 racers etc out there banging handlebars on $6k bikes i.e. having a go on e-bay sv's and finding out if they've got what it takes? We've got to get them out there which to my mind is the primary function of the class.

Thanks. With emulators ( and dare I say this ) there are a lot being fitted and not set up very well, done properly they make a significant difference. I can certainly vouch for my customers being happy. There are setting options with the rate of the poppet springs ( 4 rate options available ), the preload turns on the poppet and the bleed hole ( low speed bypass bleed ) in the poppet itself. Main spring rate, preload, oil viscosity and oil level being the other normal tuning factors.
If there is one thing that Race Tech are aguably guilty of its perpetuating the myth that anyone can rework their suspension. Well, in truth theres a hell of a lot of ham fisted suspension component fitters out there. Glad they dont work on aircraft....
I think standby and see where pro-twins heads. Ive got orders in progress for more people entering the class.

[Kickaha]

With respect to racing the nationals I think there is one factor that is a major pain in the butt that automatically rules out a lot of riders....the cost of getting to and fro over that piece of water.

Depends on how you do it, if you are organised and book far enough ahead the crossing isn't that expensive and through MNZ you can sometimes get a useful discount

For the Transit and one person $128 each way with the cheap crossings, unlike us carting the sidecar a van could otherwise hold two bikes and riders and the cost can be split

There is also the option if you book far enough ahead of paying it in installments

[Robert Taylor]

How does one learn these suspension setup skills? Presumably a lot of it is from the "suck it and see" approach? Ooooh what happens if I turn this?

Surely there must be some background material available so we can find out whats happening, then what the controls do, then how altering them will affect performance. Then try it out and see how it works.... I think its called the scientific method: develop a hypothesis, test it, evaluate conclusions....

I think with the suck it and see approach you have to be ever mindful that you are playing with the safety of the rider and others in the vicinity. There is as Shaun intimated a lot of background reading material available in either hard copy, software, net etc.
As for the level that I have got to , well, 10s of thousands of dollars to and from Stockholm and a few trips to the US, and to Italy. Throw in a Race Tech course at $1500 or so. Education costs, costs and costs. ( and I really wonder what the true return on that has been ) This all gives you a grounding but so much of it is empirical knowledge from ongoing and lengthy experience. That stuff there is just no textbooks about.

If you do a Race Tech course ( another one happening in NZ later this year ) it gives you a good insight into the basics and therefore heightens your understanding. But make you an instant technician it does not.

This is very definitely NOT a proffession where you go home at 5pm every day and just shut off, if you are involved at the sharp end it becomes all consuming and a way of life. You probably have to in effect be a little insane.

[Shaun]

This is very definitely NOT a proffession where you go home at 5pm every day and just shut off, if you are involved at the sharp end it becomes all consuming and a way of life. You probably have to in effect be a little insane.

Home, 5PM, shut off EH- Would ya talk engrish dam ya- and turn my cell phone, email address, Pm address off as well please

PS, next time I come around to your house after hours to collect work you have done for me- just stop talking so I can go home and shut off would ya

[Robert Taylor]

Home, 5PM, shut off EH- Would ya talk engrish dam ya- and turn my cell phone, email address, Pm address off as well please

PS, next time I come around to your house after hours to collect work you have done for me- just stop talking so I can go home and shut off would ya

I ''included you'' when I used that insane word!

[codgyoleracer]

With respect to racing the nationals I think there is one factor that is a major pain in the butt that automatically rules out a lot of riders....the cost of getting to and fro over that piece of water.[/QUOTE]

A bit off topic (but definatly related to lower cost budget style (protwin) racing). The trip across the water is more the time away cost than the piece of water crossed. Unless ones family is happy to treat it as a "racing holiday" & this eases the cost a little.
I did talk to MNZ about running a mid week option round - effectivly keeping the three round series in the south spread over two weekends (10 days or so). This years split rounds up north must be a pain for the Mainlanders aye........
(Of course they do charge extra for Blue trailers Robert, - there is still a strong union content on the rail ferries aye.............:-)

[Robert Taylor]

With respect to racing the nationals I think there is one factor that is a major pain in the butt that automatically rules out a lot of riders....the cost of getting to and fro over that piece of water.

A bit off topic (but definatly related to lower cost budget style (protwin) racing). The trip across the water is more the time away cost than the piece of water crossed. Unless ones family is happy to treat it as a "racing holiday" & this eases the cost a little.
I did talk to MNZ about running a mid week option round - effectivly keeping the three round series in the south spread over two weekends (10 days or so). This years split rounds up north must be a pain for the Mainlanders aye........
(Of course they do charge extra for Blue trailers Robert, - there is still a strong union content on the rail ferries aye.............:-)[/QUOTE]

You just concentrate on winning that title this weekend! Everything will be blue again soon, thats wonderful.