Has Motorcycling New Zealand lost all relevance?

[codgyoleracer]

[QUOTE=jrandom;1489984]There you go, the current F3 national champion agrees with Idle.

(Can I get this post autographed, Glen?)



Errr.........No,
interesting thread though.

[Goblin]

Awsome.
I knwo Jason Easton had a Tig Craft YZ450F engine in a Tigcraft tube chassis designed for the YZ450F engine and use RS125 Honda Swing arm triple clamps forks and rims excet the rims needed to be modified to adapt a better sprocket carrier more robust for its use

That might have been the one?? Red fairings?

I used to be of the opinion that they are fine to be in the class and anyone should be able to ride.

Till at ruapuna one day I nearly had a big off (and the motard rider actually did fall off) after he got his handlebar caught over my neck when I was going past him. Was quite a scary experience. He actually crashed trying to get us untangled. I ran off the track doing 130 odd. I have also had another instance where I was nearly clotheslined by one when I was trying to go round the outside of him.

I bet it was scary...but there I've always thought the onus is on the the person doing the passing. If someone goes around you, you just hold your line and fang it to try not to let them past. If you're passing someone you have to be sure you can make the pass safely, regardless of the size of the bike you're passing. But then again I've only done half a dozen race meetings so dont have the racecraft that you fullas do.

[idleidolidyll]

Idle. Ducati had to threaten to take their toys away to get a 200cc advantage over the Jappas so that they could continue their larger capacity domination of Superbikes. Watch this year as yet again Ducati will win the title because of their capacity advantage.
MNZ does a pretty good job, not perfect, but pretty good. As I said in my first reply, it real easy to sit on the ouitside and piss in, but it take character to actually stand up and try to improve things. You held a position in an alternative style of racing. If you really believe in what you say, then stand for the MNZ Board and try to do something for the Sport as a whole, not just the tiny part of it in which you are involved.

Nope: I'm not that stupid. I know that I could never change it from the inside unless the entire organisation was overhauled and that will never happen. I've seen the bullshit going on within the org for decades and the group think seems to be passed down generation to generation.

I'll be interested in changing it (or sidestepping it) from the outside though.

[idleidolidyll]

OK
you asume i have not read this whole thread. well I have thank you

really? did you have a dictionary with you at the time? I only ask because, from your comments, it is obvious you didn't understand.

and the question stands
are you for real
you make your self sound like you are a god or somethin,

nope; not even a minor deity

next to the abuse given to those who post vallad arguments against you,

what 'valid' arguments? when i pointed out the flaws in those 'arguments' they either changed the subject or ran away.

you choice of words in certain posts is not really what I call respectfull

who the fuck has earned my respect? respect is not something freely given to any fukwit you happen to type a few words to; it's something that must be earned to have any value

Robert for one, who you abused just after he place a valid post

boo hoo. robert didn't make a valid argument. his went along the lines that if the motard riders were given bikes with road oriented rake and trail etc, they'd start to ride like all the other road ridewrs. I made a nonsense of that by pointing out Stephen Briggs is riding a road bike and STILL riding and sliding motard style. Robert ran away to some other subject.

do I give more examples

go ahead, if they're all this weak i won't feel challenged at all.

Mate if you were in my club, I would kick you sorry ass out the door and ban you soley on your attitude toward others opinions

stop with the chest thumping already, i'm not impressed

this whole thread could have been handled a whole lot better
and I am no scoller or professional, and do lack understanding of the racing rules etc... but
I think you are just plan arrogant!

yep, arrogance is something losers think winners have. Actually it's just extreme self belief and without it; losers will always be losers

[idleidolidyll]

Geez man you seem to be living in the past, being the BEARS movement. Other than the Sound of Thunder the Chrischurch Bears club survives on Bucket and Pre '82 entries.

$ for $ a jappa road bike makes a better race bike.......Chook chasers are probally the other way around.

funny how you totally miss every point in the thread and concentrate on the straw men........................yawn

[idleidolidyll]

Dont apologise, you said nothing wrong. His gripe is unfounded considering the reason for rule change, uninformed for the same reason, and just a general cry about nothing except the stupid hasbeen couldn't go out and get in the way of F3 racers, point made when one looks to see how many times Glen Williams has been beaten while on board his SV.

I would have replied to your earlier rant but it was just too big and dumb.

You miss all the points and concentrate on fallacies.

It aint about any specific racer and it could have been wayne rainey, aaron slight, kenny roberts or any other rider used as an example. the point being that if you watch top class racing, the best riders deliberately use slides and spins and taking feet off the pegs to get an advantage. they also know that to pass, you MUST take different lines. That usually menas taking the bad line and getting really fucking loose to get past. That's called racing and if you try to ban that; you fuck the sport.

You follow with your little anecdote and for you it must seem really relevant. However, all you're pointing out is that some riders are crap and others are better. So what?

[idleidolidyll]

No I didnt say it was motards fautls Im saying the risk of a serious crash is high because of bigger hadlebars, If you readwhat I had to say were motards brushing handlebars on you isnt safe


nope: some BMW's and other sit up bikes have bars just as wide. It isn't a wide bar that's dangerous, it's a bad rider

They did it because riders were sayign we dont want ot share the track with them and the majority of good motard riders were devouwerd(sp) by the bad ones who were hanging out and I know of a few incidents of riders having a motard flick the arse half bend and slam a F3 bike and send the F3 bike into the dirt,

hat's called racing; it happens regardless of whether there's a motard involved. the 400 fourguys are just pissed because chookies are better race bikes

Sadly I dotn want to share the track with a motard they have there own class and they run there own meetings if they can share track with me can i take my biek into motards to inialte them cause my 93 RS is a CR125 engine

Nope, the class they all should have equal rights to is F3. If the ancient in line 4's want a class they should start a fukkin post post classic one so the world can move on to better bikes.

[idleidolidyll]

What a great stir. I only started racing F3 last Actrix Winter Series so I didn't get to experience motards in the field. What I remember hearing most often from F3 riders prior to this were problems with some motards outbraking into slower corners, then taking lines that obstructed the street-bikes from getting through the corner in normal fashion with their normal speed. The Street bike would then get past the motard to have it all happen again at the next tight corner. My reaction at the time was "If they are gonna fuck up my fun I want them out of there".

that's racing. i udes to do the same on my ducati and on my honda and it aint because they are motards

If nothing else this thread has made me stop and think about this reaction. There is real merit to having diversity in the F3 class and keeping the innovation going. The idea seems to work for evolution. Evolve or die etc. The crunch comes for me, when I realise that I don't want to race like a motard rider or ride a motard (am I being seduced by an unsubstantiated stereo-type here?), I want to ride my 4 cyclinder dinasaur as fast as I can. This might be easier for me without motards scaring me or blocking my preferred line.

fine, apply for a 400cc dinosaur class and get the old fours out of the F3 class where they can only win by banning better bikes

What you have done III is raised the question of whether I would be a better racer if I learned to cope with motards? Even further down the road, might I enjoy the battles with the motards? I don't know and my understanding is that MNZ have legislated that club meetings can not use special regs to get around this, so unless something changes I am unlikely to find out.

In racing the best lesson is to learn how every style works; that gives you choices and as Briggs has shown, you don't need a motard to ride that way. MNZ might have left clubs to themselves but that's not the point. Many clubs will follow MNZ rules anyway and why the hell should F3 be restricted to dinosaurs? Isn't this supposed to be a premiere class?

An observation that probably doesn't add much of value to the debate occurred while doing some corner marshalling at the Manfield hairpin at a track day a while back. There were three motard riders out in the medium group circulating reasonably quickly and making great sport out of backing into the hairpin and carving up road riders. I know this was sport for them as I could hear the hooting and I also spoke to them after the session about the appropriateness of their behaviour. Any rider on any bike can ride in an unsafe manner, my piss-weak point is that I suspect that the ability to do this kind of stuff (more easily than in my road bike) is part of the attraction of motards and riding like this will happen. Does that constitute a safety issue or an added challenge to spice up racing?

Nope; that is just racing and it can be done on many bikes that are not motards

I am strangely attracted to your argument that it is racing, and the winner is the rider who crosses the finish line first. I also want to be able to have my fun on the track without "extra" drama. I think you may have shifted me to a 60/40 balance. I can feel myself slipping off the fence.
I would be really keen to hear from geezers wot have raced both types of bike in F3. Somebody

Sully60

it doesn't matter specifically about F3. The same could be said about dumb rules in F1 etc. Don't limit yourself to the opinions of F3 riders. If I start to race again, I want to test myself against all comers, not just a bunch of bikes almost the same as mine that are old, fragile and
boring.

[idleidolidyll]

What a great stir. I only started racing F3 last Actrix Winter Series so I didn't get to experience motards in the field. What I remember hearing most often from F3 riders prior to this were problems with some motards outbraking into slower corners, then taking lines that obstructed the street-bikes from getting through the corner in normal fashion with their normal speed. The Street bike would then get past the motard to have it all happen again at the next tight corner. My reaction at the time was "If they are gonna fuck up my fun I want them out of there".

that's racing. i udes to do the same on my ducati and on my honda and it aint because they are motards

If nothing else this thread has made me stop and think about this reaction. There is real merit to having diversity in the F3 class and keeping the innovation going. The idea seems to work for evolution. Evolve or die etc. The crunch comes for me, when I realise that I don't want to race like a motard rider or ride a motard (am I being seduced by an unsubstantiated stereo-type here?), I want to ride my 4 cyclinder dinasaur as fast as I can. This might be easier for me without motards scaring me or blocking my preferred line.

fine, apply for a 400cc dinosaur class and get the old fours out of the F3 class where they can only win by banning better bikes

What you have done III is raised the question of whether I would be a better racer if I learned to cope with motards? Even further down the road, might I enjoy the battles with the motards? I don't know and my understanding is that MNZ have legislated that club meetings can not use special regs to get around this, so unless something changes I am unlikely to find out. Sully60

In racing the best lesson is to learn how every style works; that gives you choices and as Briggs has shown, you don't need a motard to ride that way. MNZ might have left clubs to themselves but that's not the point. Many clubs will follow MNZ rules anyway and why the hell should F3 be restricted to dinosaurs? Isn't this supposed to be a premiere class?

[idleidolidyll]

An observation that probably doesn't add much of value to the debate occurred while doing some corner marshalling at the Manfield hairpin at a track day a while back. There were three motard riders out in the medium group circulating reasonably quickly and making great sport out of backing into the hairpin and carving up road riders. I know this was sport for them as I could hear the hooting and I also spoke to them after the session about the appropriateness of their behaviour. Any rider on any bike can ride in an unsafe manner, my piss-weak point is that I suspect that the ability to do this kind of stuff (more easily than in my road bike) is part of the attraction of motards and riding like this will happen. Does that constitute a safety issue or an added challenge to spice up racing?

Nope; that is just racing and it can be done on many bikes that are not motards

I am strangely attracted to your argument that it is racing, and the winner is the rider who crosses the finish line first. I also want to be able to have my fun on the track without "extra" drama. I think you may have shifted me to a 60/40 balance. I can feel myself slipping off the fence.
I would be really keen to hear from geezers wot have raced both types of bike in F3. Somebody

Sully60

it doesn't matter specifically about F3. The same could be said about dumb rules in F1 etc. Don't limit yourself to the opinions of F3 riders. If I start to race again, I want to test myself against all comers, not just a bunch of bikes almost the same as mine that are old, fragile and
boring.

[idleidolidyll]

An observation marshalling at the Manfield hairpin at a track day a while back. There were three motard riders out in the medium group circulating reasonably quickly and making great sport out of backing into the hairpin and carving up road riders. I know this was sport for them as I could hear the hooting and I also spoke to them after the session about the appropriateness of their behaviour. Any rider on any bike can ride in an unsafe manner, my piss-weak point is that I suspect that the ability to do this kind of stuff (more easily than in my road bike) is part of the attraction of motards and riding like this will happen. Does that constitute a safety issue or an added challenge to spice up racing?

Nope; that is just racing and it can be done on many bikes that are not motards

I am strangely attracted to your argument that it is racing, and the winner is the rider who crosses the finish line first. I also want to be able to have my fun on the track without "extra" drama. I think you may have shifted me to a 60/40 balance. I can feel myself slipping off the fence.
I would be really keen to hear from geezers wot have raced both types of bike in F3. Somebody

Sully60

it doesn't matter specifically about F3. The same could be said about dumb rules in F1 etc. Don't limit yourself to the opinions of F3 riders. If I start to race again, I want to test myself against all comers, all styles; not just a bunch of bikes almost the same as mine that are old, fragile and boring ridden by people who think there is only one line.

[idleidolidyll]

There were three motard riders out in the medium group circulating reasonably quickly and making great sport out of backing into the hairpin and carving up road riders. I know this was sport for them as I could hear the hooting and I also spoke to them after the session about the appropriateness of their behaviour. Any rider on any bike can ride in an unsafe manner, my piss-weak point is that I suspect that the ability to do this kind of stuff (more easily than in my road bike) is part of the attraction of motards and riding like this will happen. Does that constitute a safety issue or an added challenge to spice up racing?

Nope; that is just racing and it can be done on many bikes that are not motards

I am strangely attracted to your argument that it is racing, and the winner is the rider who crosses the finish line first. I also want to be able to have my fun on the track without "extra" drama. I think you may have shifted me to a 60/40 balance. I can feel myself slipping off the fence.
I would be really keen to hear from geezers wot have raced both types of bike in F3. Somebody

Sully60

it doesn't matter specifically about F3. The same could be said about dumb rules in F1 etc. Don't limit yourself to the opinions of F3 riders. If I start to race again, I want to test myself against all comers, all styles; not just a bunch of bikes almost the same as mine that are old, fragile and boring ridden by people who think there is only one line.

[idleidolidyll]

Mate I'm happy to stand corrected but Im pretty sure even a GSthou still qualifies under this rule.
I'd measure the bar heights of the naked bikes you'd concider racing. Bet they would qualify

then you'd be wrong: i would be pleased to race a KTM Duke ROAD BIKE with its 140mm suspension etc. The seat height is about 865mm and the bars are way higher than that. It's banned by ignorance and jealousy, not by common sense and reason

[idleidolidyll]

I don't want to bash MNZ on this thread, but (please excuse my naivety), what did MNZ do this year to promote the series?

Bernard racing organised the Aussies and Yanks didn't he? Bloody great too Brian!
The new LCR sidecars brought into NZ weren't organised by MNZ, but did improve numbers/quality/apperances.
Did MNZ make Craig Sherriffs pull finger and ride like a demon?
Did they buy Sam Smith a new bike or give him the learn? (Prior to his crash - he was on fire).
Did MNZ get Mr Rocket Bugden to NZ?
All of the above events made this year a better year for spectators, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it was MNZ's doing.
Ivan, I've been around for over 2 decades in the sport, and I can see it going downhill fast!
Many years ago we had vastly larger numbers of spectators.
Now its not even promoted as a national series - its now a Superbike series! Do you race a superbike Ivan? I don't, neither does Glen Williams. Infact, on the NZSBK website, they don't even include sidecars in their classes for the series!! Hold on, I pay the same fees as all the other classes, but I can't tell my sponsor I race in a national event!! What the f@@k??
Did you lose your prizemoney for the benefit of advertising? Do you think you got value for your losses?
I won all the South Island races, and yet as like you, I didn't see any of our class on TV. Considering that the NZ sidecar class now has the fastest sidecar in the world, (and the most expensive race machine currently on the track), don't you think that that would be a good enough reason for promotion on TV?
MNZ do need to listen to the voices of the people they are volunteering to help. They need to hold workshops with competitors!!

excellent post

[Ivan]

If youve looked at F3 the Majority of bikes out there are SV650s they aint old, and man someo of those guys with them so called old 400's make them boogie, I love the F3 its a great class and I would love to see farm bikes out there modified to suit road racing....

Plain and simple if you wanna road race.

GET A ROAD RACE BIKE

If you wanna do MotoX

GET A MOTOX BIKE

If you wanna have a rant about bar height rules why not tell the 400 boys to piss off and make there own class why dont you piss off and make your own class of racing that has a rule no bikes without bars under 900mm or something

And piss off wasnt ment as in Piss off away as in A saying go and do it

Im not good with trying to get across what I say but Im trying my hardest here remember ive only been around the sport a few years I started at 13 and im 18 now so I aint been in it that long at all