Police blast speed cameras.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I forget the statistics but I think that it's now true that worldwide, we have killed more people on the roads than all the wars in history.

Uh, this is relevant how? (even if true, which I frankly doubt).

[JMemonic]

OK then, given that, why are known safety measures which would reduce carnage from car crashes not made mandatory? Five point harnesses. Full MANZ rollcage, neck brace, fireproof suit, automatic fire extinguishers, fuel cells, just off the top of my head.

don't suggest that one of the rocket scientists in power might see that and go to his mates hey I have had a good idea why don't we make it that all vehicles have to have the following

[Ixion]

You don't need me to answer that one for you.
You know the answer as well as I do.
I forget the statistics but I think that it's now true that worldwide, we have killed more people on the roads than all the wars in history.
I am intrigued by the level of carnage that we will accept in the name of convenience.
As I said, I agree that speed may be wrongly demonised as a causal factor, but it sure has an influence on the spread of the bits (people included)

It is more than convenience. Yes, we could eliminate most (not all) of the roads deaths by setting and ruthlessly enforcing a 20kph speed limit. We would also cripple society.(remember, it includes trucks as well as cars and bikes)

For good or ill, modern society relies on easy and effective transportation. Force transport back to the logistics of the horse and cart, and society as we know it would cease to be a functional practicality.

So, we do indeed accept that a certain number of deaths and injuries will be the price we pay for effective transport. Just as we accept that a certain number of deaths amongst building site workers will be the price we pay for multi story buildings. Just as we accept that a certain number of deaths will be the price we pay for air travel. Should we outlaw aircraft to eliminate those deaths (since speed limits are not practical)?

Everything has a price, everything has a risk. There are no free lunches. In general, up to physical limits, the faster the transportation medium, the more efficient it is. Travel time is unproductive, it is a unbeneficial cost to society. Reduce the time spent travelling, and society is better off.

We accept that a certain risk of death or injury , caused by travelling at 100kph, is acceptable. What logic is there that says that a greater number of deaths caused by travelling at , say, 120kph would not be equally acceptable, in return for a more efficient trasportation system. The argument is equally as valid as the one that says that we should accept a less efficient transportation system in return for fewer deaths .

As to being more than all the wars of history, I would much doubt that figure. A generally accepted figure for the fatalities of WW1 alone is 20 million. Include those of the Russian civil wars (another 15 million) , China's many wars etc. We cannot possibly be talking of less than 50 million dead.

That's in only a few of the worlds long and sorry history of wars.

I don't have a figure for the all time road toll. But, of recent years , the USA has had an average rate of around 40000 deaths pa . Now, in early years it would have been much lower (fewer cars in 1910!) So I think we might estimate the all time total for the USA at perhaps 2 million. The USA has a vastly greater number of vehicles than any other country. Probably (given that car ownership became common in the USA much earlier than in other countries), the all time car fleet number for the USA is as great as the rest of the world put together. That would make the global all time toll around 4 or 5 million. Very bad, but nowhere near that of war . Certainly, this is a very rough and ready computation, and I will readily yield to more robust figures. But the discrepancy is so great that I cannot see the any correction being able to substantiate the origianl claim. It smells of one of those convenient ones invented on the spot by zealots. I do not believe it.

[SPman]

That's in only a few of the worlds long and sorry history of wars.

A book I read recently on the subject, had a conservative estimate for the 20th century alone, of about 365 million "illegally killed" - about 15 million combatants in wars (soldiers etc) and the rest, civilians killed in the main by their own countries authorities - governments, warlords, etc! The more autocratic the country, the higher the death toll - the top killers being Stalins soviets and China - both Communist and Nationalist Chinese were about equal in the death stakes - however - I digress

I don't have a figure for the all time road toll. But, of recent years , the USA has had an average rate of around 40000 deaths pa . Now, in early years it would have been much lower (fewer cars in 1910!) So I think we might estimate the all time total for the USA at perhaps 2 million. The USA has a vastly greater number of vehicles than any other country. Probably (given that car ownership became common in the USA much earlier than in other countries), the all time car fleet number for the USA is as great as the rest of the world put together. That would make the global all time toll around 4 or 5 million. Very bad, but nowhere near that of war . Certainly, this is a very rough and ready computation, and I will readily yield to more robust figures. But the discrepancy is so great that I cannot see the any correction being able to substantiate the origianl claim. It smells of one of those convenient ones invented on the spot by zealots. I do not believe it.

The highest death rate - not in total killed, but cars per population/miles driven / etc/ etc was, I believe, 1939.
The death toll as a percentage of same, has steadily trended downwards, ever since.
Car safety, both passive and active has done more to reduce the death toll than any cubic meter of legislation or law enforcement, particularly since the early 80's!

[scumdog]

As for GDB cops vs HP cops, again my response is either "so what?" isnt uncle helen giving us all more cops for christmas (its election year after all). .

Mwahahahaha...more cops?

Oh shit yeah, that's why we're having to score relievers from Dunedin - just to make sure we have at least two on duty on night-shift (most of the time)

[Biggles08]

Goodness no, sounds terrible - i hear these new vehicles have a reverse too. Imagine the damage if he had tried that????
Yes he is a knobskin and no im not being cheeky - just merly stating that while you may be able to get him off the road there are about 2 million more left in the country.
The only thing you can change is you.
The world is out to kill you, its only a matter of time - and it happens to everyone.
Until you get on that bike, look your loved ones in the eyes and think to yourself it may be the last time they see you - your 10-ft-tall and bulletproof.

Well 'your not trying to be cheeky' is hard to accept when you say stupid sarcastic shit like 'I hear these new vehicles have reverse!' Further more how the fuck do you know what I think when I go riding???

Frankly, I understand that I personally am not going to change 2 million people's attitude to road safety, but have you ever heard the quote "All evil ever needs to prevail, is for good people to do nothing?"

So while you take your life in your hands every time you decide to ride on the road is true, this doesn't mean you should accept it as an acceptable standard. I'll make as much noise as I can until people start to understand and look for the real problems....SPEED DOES NOT KILL! Its a fact!

[scumdog]

....SPEED DOES NOT KILL! Its a fact!

True.

It's how fast you stop that determines if you're likely to be killed.
Of course you need some level speed to be able to stop..

The faster the speed the faster the ability to stop there is.

[Biggles08]

True.

It's how fast you stop that determines if you're likely to be killed.
Of course you need some level speed to be able to stop..

The faster the speed the faster the ability to stop there is.

At last!!! A cop who agrees that speed does not kill...thank you for seeing logic. It indeed is the stopping that does the killing. If we had equal focus on managing both the excessive speed part as reducing the risks around stopping too fast, the road would be a lot safer! I believe the person in charge of the 'Speed Kills' campaign has a lot too answer to and is partly responsible for our roads not being a safer place.

There are far more important issues surrounding safety on our roads other than excessive speed such as proper education for drivers, better roads, better road rules for eg. IF the land transport dept really cares about safety on our roads, and that is a big IF, they should be looking at making roads with the realization that the stopping part is doing all the killing...its hard to believe that they really care about safety when there putting cheese cutters up everywhere (just as an example).

[BIGBOSSMAN]

If i have to issue a ticket to every single person in the country and it saves one life then i have done my job

Mate, it's that type of uninformed PC comment that has turned me off the Police in this country. Germany has unlimited speed limits on their Autobahns yet their road toll is lower per capita than here. Get yo head out of your arse and wake up to yourself. It's bad driving that kills, not speed per se. Read and learn...

[scumdog]

Mate, it's that type uninformed PC comment that has turned me off the Police in this country. Germany has unlimited speed limits on their Autobahns yet their road toll is lower per capita than here. Get yo head out of your arse and wake up to yourself. It's bad driving that kills, not speed per se. Read and learn...

Yeah makes ya wonder how we have such a high road toll with all these flash autobahns we have the length and breadth of this country....

[spudchucka]

Burglary is NOT a joke, and you have no right to contemptuously deride those who have suffered at the hands of burglars. The police attitude toward such crimes is a disgrace , and unacceptable.

Take a step back for a second and put it in context. The guy was just responding to the bullshit suggestion that the police as an organisation prioritise traffic enforcement over "Real Crime", a notion based on nothing other than a few people who can't control themselves when in charge of a motor vehicle and who whine like spoilt brats when they get caught.

Burglary is a huge priority to police. In the area that I work we have a boss that constantly pushes a hard line against burglars and they have invested heavily in additional staff to specifically target burglary as a strategic priority. The fact that burglary is a priority in no way results in traffic being less of a priority because as was pointed out in the post that seems to have offended everyone, its on the roads where people are dying.

What he said was all factually correct and in no way suggested that burglary is a joke. I understand completely his response in the face of the daily reality of his job and when you read through the ignorant and ill informed rot that gets published on this site, of which this thread is a classic example.

[Biggles08]

Yeah makes ya wonder how we have such a high road toll with all these flash autobahns we have the length and breadth of this country....

His point is that SPEED DOES NOT KILL not that we should all drive like we're on autobahns...stop twisting words. Of course we need speed limits here in NZ and a lot slower than set in Europe...thats because our roads suck arse! Lets fix em then!

[Swoop]

It's bad driving that kills, not speed per se.

Damn right on that!
But it is far easier for some pencil-dicked public servant in Wellytown to pick a number out of the air and declare "THIS is the target for road deaths this year".
Completely irrational and irresponsible. They need to target the level of crap driving here, first-and-foremost!

[spudchucka]

Mwahahahaha...more cops?

Oh shit yeah, that's why we're having to score relievers from Dunedin - just to make sure we have at least two on duty on night-shift (most of the time)

Not to mention that they are looking at recruiting out of Singapore, imagine how well they'd go policing a bunch of pissed up Gorons!

[scumdog]

Completely irrational and irresponsible. They need to target the level of crap driving here, first-and-foremost!

Let's stuff THAT plan up - let's drive at a responsible safe level with a bit of courtesy thrown in..