Disbelief at what I heard

[ital916]

That whole post is so sad its not even funny

finally an emotional response, for a second there I thought you were an android sent from the future to diss hondas. Nwo why don't you take that finger of your and stick it in yourself and make your self happy. I didn't mean that post to be angry, but communicating via posts can confuse emtions. I'm going to agree to disagree and let this thread die, the last thing I want is to make enemies of the good friends I have made in the club. . Lets do something communally friendly, like diss hondas.

[Sofa]

finally an emotional response, for a second there I thought you were an android sent from the future to diss hondas. Nwo why don't you take that finger of your and stick it in yourself and make your self happy. I didn't mean that post to be angry, but communicating via posts can confuse emtions. I'm going to agree to disagree and let this thread die, the last thing I want is to make enemies of the good friends I have made in the club. . Lets do something communally friendly, like diss hondas.

I thought last night everyone pretty much agreed to disagree at the chiller...? No one was screaming at you. Kyle clearly stated that he was just telling a story and you went off your rocket at him. This whole thing was just between you and Andrew, face to face, and now you're trying to let something die that should never even have been created and that should never have involved anyone else in the club.

Stephen had every right to say what he said, you musn't have been trying very hard to make it not sound angry.

Rob and Soph

You seem full of opinions but don't seem to be able to accept anyone else's...

[EJK]

Hey Dush, it's not only me who think this thread is a bit self opinionated tbh lol

Well, I can't say more cause I wasn't there last night...

So I'm out

[ital916]

I thought last night everyone pretty much agreed to disagree at the chiller...? No one was screaming at you. Kyle clearly stated that he was just telling a story and you went off your rocket at him. This whole thing was just between you and Andrew, face to face, and now you're trying to let something die that should never even have been created and that should never have involved anyone else in the club.

Stephen had every right to say what he said, you musn't have been trying very hard to make it not sound angry.

Rob and Soph

You seem full of opinions but don't seem to be able to accept anyone else's...

, yeah sorry guys, that post was kinda angry sounding but wasn't meant as angry. I'm gonna jet for a while and lay low with brick. *he's still laying low from stabbing that guy with the trident*.

[Phurrball]

D man, I hate to say it, but you're guilty of being the author of your own misfortune by creating this thread.

You're passion, while commendable, comes through in a way that seems a little raw and untempered and paints you into an uncomfortable corner, and ya can't seem to put the brush down...

Remember that the vocal and behavioural conversational cues that humans have evolved with over millenia of F2F conversation won't come through in cyberspace text - you're communicating in a forum that almost guarantees misunderstanding for that reason (and it does not allow for quick, easy clarification).

Bear that in mind and you might be a little less troubled by the responses you get.

[HungusMaximist]

Haven't got the time to read the thread but whatever it is, we forgive you Dushy.

It's characters like yourself that gives our club that 'edge' factor...

[Metalor]

Awwww.. are you guys fighting and making up? How cute!

[motorbyclist]

Time to bust out my ACME Chairperson's hammer eh?

Andrew, fetch me the westie spanner.

Where is that guy anyway?

sorry guys, just had a week of tests and assignments with little or no time for sleep, let alone KB

I'm going to agree to disagree and let this thread die,

but i only just got to read the thread!

oh and i thought you wanted to discuss it at the chiller (which i didn't until after reading this thread), but now your removed post seems to show you changed your mind on that one when everyone disagreed with you... nice...

prepare for a well contructed argument to back up my claims, along with my side of the sign-up stand story and my "experience argument"

[Ragingrob]

Now that the rugby's finished, back to the Bold and the KBeautiful.

[skidMark]

[motorbyclist]

so at the stand, dushi (drider), myself (andrew), and david (piratejafa), were all standing around talking the usual shit when a girl *omg shock horror - get in there dushi!* came up and asked if she could join if she didn't have a bike

of course this is fine we tell her, she then asks how much a scooter is likely to cost, and we give the usual response of a few hundy for a chinese one that will last a few weeks tops or over a grand for something that won't depreciate too bad and isn't likely to have the brakes fall off

next is which is safer, which again got the (my) standard response of "you hit the road at 50kph or 100kph and it doesn't matter what you're riding: it'll likely still hurt - but the bike is more stable and has better brakes so i'd say the bike is a better preventative safety measure, but it does cost more and a scooter isn't going to get to 100kph very often

then there was gear....

dushi began his usual rhetoric about atgatt and i left him to it and continued talking shit with david until i heard speak of open face helmets being considered an option.

at this point i jumped in, like the dick i can be, and busted out the "don't buy an open face helmet" story, using lines such as "why buy half a helmet?", would you run into a brick wall (or the side of a 4wd) wearing one?" to help her understand what i'm talking about. then used anecdotal evidence of some of the full face helmets i've seen where the rider has slid on their face, grinding off the jaw guard, which would have otherwise been their face. dushi disagrees, saying the "they aren't as bad as people think and you make out! *insert brand here* helmets are very well built blah blah blah, and you wear jeans and sneakers to uni!". i come back with "but you'e a safety nut advocating open face helmets, wtf, and 'less damage than i make out' is far worse than no damage at all. i value my face much more than my legs, as much as i do like eating through a straw while running"

words were exchanged, girl looked on in horror and bemusement at the two arm waving engineers having a right go at each other over the two helmets. hanne had the common sense to get her to sign up before she got scared off as we had clearly forgotten about her. i started being a prick seeing as i am right, high fived david after using dushi to prove dushi wrong (which he won't admit) and then dushi stole my bike's seat and buggered off somewhere to sulk

no-one post until i'm finished plz

[motorbyclist]

now first off, don't get me wrong - this is just my opinion and my reasoning behind it. i do realise how may of you seem to overreact to expressed opinions as people trying to somehow impose restrictions on others.

i don't take any advice nor answers without first considering them to see if the make sense, and check for actual evidence for and against that advice. as such consider this my justification for my opinion, not an attempt to force anyone to wear only a full face helmet and nothing less.


first of all, why an open face helmet can be considered a better purchase:

• you can have better access to your face for conversation
• you can have better access to your face for food
• you can have better access to your face for cameras
• they suit the harley/scooter rider uniform/fashion
• fogging free

now, i call all of these shit reasons as a helmet is primarily for safety, and fashion is the slackest excuse for anything - form should follow function, not the other way around, and i personally think a full face is better looking in both cases. looks more badass in matt black, hides an ugly gob, and for girls... well lets just say that i reckon a girl in full riding gear that still shows some form can be just as hot as a miniskirt and extra-low cut top, and leaves alot more to the imagination - i mean, where's the thrill in removing the stuff if you're already seen 98% of her anyway?
fogging up is easily solved by lifting the visor a crack.
face access is solved by taking the goddamn helmet off when you aren't riding; it isn't hard, and you shouldn't be eating while riding anyway

no i'm still not finished

[motorbyclist]

well, lets see

• much more complete protection in a crash (see phurrball's post earlier on in this thread and my explanation below)
• better protection from bugs, gravel etc, provided the visor is mostly closed - and yes i am aware there are open face ones with full visors
• they don't cost anything extra if you're buying a quality helmet
• fits the sportsbike uniform/fashion - just like an open face this is a shit reason except sportbikes (naked and faired) are about performance/function, with form/aesthetics a result of that - so the helmet is arguably part of that fashion due to it's being more functional.

now let's think about this. why do we buy a helmet?

for safety for or for looks?

well if you buy one for the for look (ie just to meet the legal requirement), then by all means buy the open face.

but, for a large portion of us, and atleast in the case of this girl asking about safety gear, it is for protection in a crash

so wtf would you only buy half a helmet?

we have very little control over how or when we crash. infact we very often do things that actually make things worse. our best bet is to look at statistics and learn from the mistakes of others and apply our resources as best we can to cover the most likely eventualities.

frankly any argument from dushi about the quality of an open face soup bowl is completely irrelevant. no matter how good the helmet is, if it doesn't cover your face, it ain't going to protect your face. i always assumed them for the sake of this argument to be very good at protecting the rest of your head anyway.

fact is that landing face first, or later sliding onto your face, is a 'more often than uncommon' occurance. your face/front of head is very important. you need it to see, eat, taste, smell, and most importantly (jk) pull in the girls. without full control of ones face we can lose our ability to talk unimpaired, to convey emotion, and we all know that people who look weird facially are much more difficult to talk to than say, someone in a wheelchair.

no i'm not done

[skidMark]

finally an emotional response, for a second there I thought you were an android sent from the future to diss hondas. Nwo why don't you take that finger of your and stick it in yourself and make your self happy. I didn't mean that post to be angry, but communicating via posts can confuse emtions. I'm going to agree to disagree and let this thread die, the last thing I want is to make enemies of the good friends I have made in the club. . Lets do something communally friendly, like diss hondas.

After your first post your going to have to do more than that to make right with your minions.

Perhaps a bake sale next week.

Then a sausage sizzle... oh no hang on, thats honda riders only.

[motorbyclist]

if you manage to crash such that you hurt your face in spite of a full face helmet, you would've been fucked wearing an open face. statistically, and obviously, your less likely to hurt your face in an accident when wearing full face, especially in one in which your face hits an object.

now i do admit to wearing jeans on my 21km, open road to suburb to motorway to city commute through auckland. i am fully aware of the risk i am taking. i am yet to have a commuting accident, and in no way assume it isn't going to happen - BUT, i wear jeans and sneakers as pants/boots are somewhat inconvienient. if it is wet i often will wear full gear as the chances of an accident are much higher - not because i don't want to get wet, my gear isn't entirely waterproof.

i always wear full gear (no back protector due to not owning one) when i go for a ride due to accident risk, or go somewhere where the gear isn't a problem

so how could i possibly argue against an open face helmet?

well for starters, i value my face alot more than my fucking legs and the full face is more practical for my riding.
but more importantly, we were talking to a newbie rider about safety - and i will be the first to advocate safety to newbies as i know they very rarely actually understand the risks involved nor the injuries you incur.

i wear less than atgatt, but ALWAYS have gloves, jacket and helmet, even on my pocket rocket. i know the risks and take my chances fully informed, just as many other riders do.


how am i less of a hypocrite than dushi?

he wears full gear, including back protector, for all of his 5 minute commute, and i commend him for this. i give him shit for being a safety nut but i cannot in any way fault him for doing it. BUT he did tell the girl that she could wear jeans and shoes, just as i do, and then went to say an open face "wasn't that bad"

he also insists banzai buy a new helmet af ter dropping it twice. he's dead right, but somehow this is worse than an open face?

i'm sorry, but in my books this makes no sense. you can't go saying "omg you cant talk about wearing a safer helmet to protect a head because you don't wear atgatt" right after suggesting a girl wear jeans and shoes. you can't also say "i'd be happy to wear that particular open face helmet if i could" and then preach how we should wear atgatt because you'd only be wearing half a fucking helmet

what we wear/do has no bearing on the validity of our arguments anyway.

the fact is, for the gear we wear, for whatever reason, especially if it's for safety, we should wear the gear that does a complete job of it

not finished yet