To import bike gear or not?

**cs363** · 23rd July 2008, 19:47

Originally Posted by Fatjim

I have in fact got these boots. I purchased them with a jacket and gloves last year for around $800 including shipping and (fuck I hate bikebandit) pre charge import duty. Took about a week to 10 days to get to my door.

The boots alone here are $449. I'd be looking at about $1200 all up I guess for the gloves and jacket as well (I haven't seen the jacket in NZ, and certainly not in a XXXL size).

So what happens if you have a warranty issue with the boots or the jacket? Will you be sending them back to Bike Bandit or expecting your local dealer and whichever importers to cover that even though you cut them out of the original purchase? Are you aware that some companies make their distributors carry the local warranty costs out of their profit, or do not cover the entire cost of repair/replacement etc?
You also (erroneously) complain that no one carries your size in NZ - frankly would it be any wonder when you don't support them anyway?

No one is denying that you can buy things (and not just m/c accessories and parts) cheaper overseas, but the point that most people seem to be trying to make is that if we all went that way you would end up with no dealers, so what then? Buy bikes from overseas? What happens then with servicing and warranty and parts etc?

I don't think anyone has an issue with people picking up some goodies when on an overseas trip, or buying things that aren't available here etc., but when someone is making the effort to service our sport (and I'm including sponsorship and support of individuals & events that we all take for granted, magazines that we all enjoy that these same dealers and importers fund via advertising - you don't think the cover price pays for that nice glossy magazine do you?) and making a modest profit to cover overheads, it just seems wrong and short sighted to me.
The other factor is that most dealers would be happy to offer a deal to someone spending a reasonable amount of money on several items - it's rare that people will pay full retail in instances like that.

Your complaint regarding pricing would be valid if private individuals were on a level playing field with the importers, yet in most cases they are buying from far larger markets where sales volumes are much, much higher enabling shops to bulk buy with appropriate discounts and work on lower margins. They also don't have to pay all the import charges - at worst most will just pay GST and if shipped by FedEx a small brokerage fee. (There should be no duty on boots or textile jackets with armour)
An importer on the other hand will have to pay bank fees (usually at both ends), customs entry charges, customs EDI fees, document fees, terminal transfer fees, port charges, LCL/FCL fees, cartage at both ends and often more fees (they vary between air and sea imports) then being small businesses they are probably operating on an overdraft so factor in the cost of servicing that, add mortgage or rent, all the usual overheads such as power, phone etc. Add running expenses for sales reps, wages for their staff (and of course we all want more pay) and so it goes on.

So what you say, that's not my problem - well it pretty damn well will be soon if whatever job you are in is affected by that company losing revenue to people buying the same products it sells from offshore.

Don't take this as a personal attack on you Jim, I'm just trying to point out that there is a hell of a lot more to the equation than just a short term gain by buying cheap products from overseas.

**BIGBOSSMAN** · 23rd July 2008, 20:34

Originally Posted by cs363

Your complaint regarding pricing would be valid if private individuals were on a level playing field with the importers, yet in most cases they are buying from far larger markets where sales volumes are much, much higher enabling shops to bulk buy with appropriate discounts and work on lower margins. They also don't have to pay all the import charges - at worst most will just pay GST and if shipped by FedEx a small brokerage fee. (There should be no duty on boots or textile jackets with armour)
An importer on the other hand will have to pay bank fees (usually at both ends), customs entry charges, customs EDI fees, document fees, terminal transfer fees, port charges, LCL/FCL fees, cartage at both ends and often more fees (they vary between air and sea imports) then being small businesses they are probably operating on an overdraft so factor in the cost of servicing that, add mortgage or rent, all the usual overheads such as power, phone etc. Add running expenses for sales reps, wages for their staff (and of course we all want more pay) and so it goes on.

Buddy, all the moaning and groaning about "it's just not fair!" won't do a thing. The door is open for people to import gear for significantly less than be bought at shop level here, it's up to the purchaser as to whether it's worth it (taking service back-up etc in to consideration).
That's the reality, personally I wouldn't take a chance with certain items but the hell I'm going to pay three times the price for 'genuine' parts for my motorcycle. I wasn't born yesterday!

**Katman** · 23rd July 2008, 20:53

Originally Posted by BIGBOSSMAN

but the hell I'm going to pay three times the price for 'genuine' parts for my motorcycle.

Neither would I. If there is a reputable aftermarket option available in N.Z. for a motorcycle component why would you pay the ridiculous prices that they (particularly Suzuki N.Z. and BlueWing Honda) ask for 'genuine' ones?

But that's not actually what we're talking about.

**cs363** · 23rd July 2008, 21:07

Originally Posted by BIGBOSSMAN

Buddy, all the moaning and groaning about "it's just not fair!" won't do a thing. The door is open for people to import gear for significantly less than be bought at shop level here, it's up to the purchaser as to whether it's worth it (taking service back-up etc in to consideration).
That's the reality, personally I wouldn't take a chance with certain items but the hell I'm going to pay three times the price for 'genuine' parts for my motorcycle. I wasn't born yesterday!

Oh I'm well aware that highlighting the fact that it's not fair won't do a thing, particularly under the present government - but that's a whole new thread right there.
The point, as you came close to realising in the middle of your post is that it's up to the purchaser as to whether it's worth it after taking the big picture into consideration.
When there is no NZ motorcycle industry left because of everyone taking the 'it's all about me' approach and motorcycles become an imported luxury only the very rich (if there will be any of them left in NZ by that time!) can afford, don't come crying to me or any of the others on this thread that can see past cheap prices on the internet.
I value good service, advice and the back up a good dealer can provide and don't mind paying a moderate amount more to have this available to me.

**BIGBOSSMAN** · 23rd July 2008, 23:55

Originally Posted by cs363

Oh I'm well aware that highlighting the fact that it's not fair won't do a thing, particularly under the present government - but that's a whole new thread right there.
The point, as you came close to realising in the middle of your post is that it's up to the purchaser as to whether it's worth it after taking the big picture into consideration.
When there is no NZ motorcycle industry left because of everyone taking the 'it's all about me' approach and motorcycles become an imported luxury only the very rich (if there will be any of them left in NZ by that time!) can afford, don't come crying to me or any of the others on this thread that can see past cheap prices on the internet.
I value good service, advice and the back up a good dealer can provide and don't mind paying a moderate amount more to have this available to me.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, just stating the obvious reality. Opening up importation regulations has turned the local market into an international one, not helped by a very good exchange rate of late and the fact that we are in a low wage economy here in NZ.
Just remember - people that ride motorcycles also have to buy shoes, clothe kids, pay for food/petrol/rates and mortgages, and they're not going down in price anytime soon by the look of it.
Kind of makes paying 30 - 50% less on goods via the net pretty attractive, doesn't it?
My 2c (rounded up to 5c - luckily paid in $US to take advantage of the exchange rate)

**cs363** · 24th July 2008, 00:13

Originally Posted by BIGBOSSMAN

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, just stating the obvious reality. Opening up importation regulations has turned the local market into an international one, not helped by a very good exchange rate of late and the fact that we are in a low wage economy here in NZ.
Just remember - people that ride motorcycles also have to buy shoes, clothe kids, pay for food/petrol/rates and mortgages, and they're not going down in price anytime soon by the look of it.
Kind of makes paying 30 - 50% less on goods via the net pretty attractive, doesn't it?
My 2c (rounded up to 5c - luckily paid in $US to take advantage of the exchange rate)

Lol, and I'm not necessarily totally disagreeing with you either - and in fact, you've hit upon one of the main points that several of us are trying to make. It's not the bike shops or importers that are the villains here, the ball is well and truly in the governments court on the majority of the issues you raise in your post.
Though it does make me wonder why given the points raised about our reliance on having a local industry for all the good things it allows us to enjoy - why don't people try and support their local dealers where possible (assuming they are providing you with good service etc) and perhaps buy their kids clothes, shoes etc offshore as there are also savings to be made on these items?
But back to the governments role - if import regs were tightened up and local businesses (not just motorcycle industry ones either) weren't losing out to overseas companies and money wasn't going offshore etc then the likely outcome is that we would be enjoying higher wages, a more even exchange rate etc.....kind of a viscious circle really. (yes I know it's all a bit oversimplified, but the so are plenty of the opposing arguments!)

**=cJ=** · 24th July 2008, 22:03

**Shrug**

I buy local.

By the time I've bugged the poor sales guys for days and asked them to get other sizes in so I can make sure I'm getting the right fit and sat on all their bikes and then had the cheek to see if I can get something thrown in with whatever I'm buying...

I kinda reckon they've earnt/deserve at least the price difference between me importing and what I paid.

I figure it's worth paying to have someone to bug who knows their products and is willing to help me out and will help me out if anything goes wrong with whatever I've bought...

**The Stranger:Me** · 24th July 2008, 23:58

Originally Posted by BIGBOSSMAN

That's the reality, personally I wouldn't take a chance with certain items but the hell I'm going to pay three times the price for 'genuine' parts for my motorcycle. I wasn't born yesterday!

Aren't genuine parts a classic case though of the support you do get when you rely upon the importer for service.

They never bloody have them. Sure spark plugs, oil filters and brake shoes, but anything else and it has to come from Japan. Tide has been waiting 7 weeks for the parts for his ER6. I know a LOT of people whom have had to wait looooong periods of time for their genuine parts - even for the likes of a Hayabusa, which after selling many of them over many years, you still have to wait for parts.

Now this IS with bikes purchased locally from the local distributor. So they get our support as suggested in this thread and the benefits to we the consumer is what again?

Exorbitant prices and no stock. Even the warranty can be a mission at times.

**Robert Taylor** · 25th July 2008, 08:55

Originally Posted by The Stranger

Aren't genuine parts a classic case though of the support you do get when you rely upon the importer for service.

They never bloody have them. Sure spark plugs, oil filters and brake shoes, but anything else and it has to come from Japan. Tide has been waiting 7 weeks for the parts for his ER6. I know a LOT of people whom have had to wait looooong periods of time for their genuine parts - even for the likes of a Hayabusa, which after selling many of them over many years, you still have to wait for parts.

Now this IS with bikes purchased locally from the local distributor. So they get our support as suggested in this thread and the benefits to we the consumer is what again?

Exorbitant prices and no stock. Even the warranty can be a mission at times.

Ive heard this tired old argument since time immemorial and it always forgets that our tiny population and very distanced isolation exacerbates such issues. Please understand that not all distributors are tarred with the same brush and that I am in no way acting as an apologist. But having worked in both retail / wholesale and having travelled widely I think I have a fair appreciation.
The cold hard reality is that a low population equals low stock turn equals a disproportionately high cost of carrying stock. We simply do not have economy of scale and millions of customers to justify larger inventories, it is as simple as that, unless as a business you want to commit suicide. Customers want all the trappings of the first world economies but pay scant homage to the limitations of our tiny economy.
Given the further pressures of the weak $US and the business costs so ably listed by CS363 its amazing many distributors stock as much as they do.
I do detect in a number of the posts ''I dont give a stuff about suporting NZ business ( and by implication ) NZ workers'' Thankfully not everyone thinks like that.

**The Stranger:Me** · 25th July 2008, 10:48

Originally Posted by Robert Taylor

Ive heard this tired old argument since time immemorial and it always forgets that our tiny population and very distanced isolation exacerbates such issues. Please understand that not all distributors are tarred with the same brush and that I am in no way acting as an apologist. But having worked in both retail / wholesale and having travelled widely I think I have a fair appreciation.
The cold hard reality is that a low population equals low stock turn equals a disproportionately high cost of carrying stock. We simply do not have economy of scale and millions of customers to justify larger inventories, it is as simple as that, unless as a business you want to commit suicide. Customers want all the trappings of the first world economies but pay scant homage to the limitations of our tiny economy.
Given the further pressures of the weak $US and the business costs so ably listed by CS363 its amazing many distributors stock as much as they do.
I do detect in a number of the posts ''I dont give a stuff about suporting NZ business ( and by implication ) NZ workers'' Thankfully not everyone thinks like that.

I do give a stuff about supporting NZ companies and workers - now how about quid pro quo thanks.

Thanks for the excuses Robert, however as BOTH a consumer and self employed business owner I really don't give a rats about the excuses (economy, economies of scale etc etc) you find a way to make it work for yourself AND your customer. Get creative, think outside the square (do the dealers realise that we have flying machines these days?) if not customers go elsewhere. Simple - and the crux of discussion really, and the way it is in my business too and the way it should be.

**Robert Taylor** · 25th July 2008, 12:07

Originally Posted by The Stranger

I do give a stuff about supporting NZ companies and workers - now how about quid pro quo thanks.

Thanks for the excuses Robert, however as BOTH a consumer and self employed business owner I really don't give a rats about the excuses (economy, economies of scale etc etc) you find a way to make it work for yourself AND your customer. Get creative, think outside the square (do the dealers realise that we have flying machines these days?) if not customers go elsewhere. Simple - and the crux of discussion really, and the way it is in my business too and the way it should be.

Note that the comments were generalised and ( again )that not every distributor is tarred with the same brush. I wasnt singling you out ( at all ) and was trying to present reasons ( not excuses ) for the other side of the argument. Nothing more or less.

**vifferman** · 25th July 2008, 12:39

Originally Posted by The Stranger

... you find a way to make it work for yourself AND your customer.

I was just about to post that "it's all about service". I'm prepared to pay a bit extra for that - if the local service is good, and the retailer actually acts like they give a damn about my custom, then I'll be their customer. However, as many on here have posted, the service and attitude at many bike shops is abysmal - many act like they're doing you a favour, or even as though you're a nuisance to them.

And if I need a part - something like brake parts that should be standard stock - why should I have to wait three weeks for them? Or seven months (my worst example), when they can be had over the Interdweeb in a week? And that's not usually the shop's fault - it's the importer. Their dealers are obviously in a position where as customers they're getting shit service from the importer, but aren't (usually) in a position to take their custom elsewhere.

To me, the bottom line is that it's all about if you're a shop, or are offering a service, you need to take care of your customers, or they'll go elsewhere. Yes, you have to make a decent margin or you'll go out of business, and part of looking after your customers is ensuring economic viability so that you're there for the long term. It's also about decent service at a decent price, and supply and demand. It's a bit crap if there's a demand that's not being met, because of supply problems or an arrogant attitude.

**Shaun** · 25th July 2008, 15:37

Robert Taylor
Hardcore Biker
♂
Bike: None
Location: New Plymouth
Posts: 975

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun
Robert T and Quasi evel, how many times and miles have you both driven your officual buisness vehicles on private buisness? That the company fuel card paid for, YEP guys, that is also ripping off the NZ economy, and do not try to say you DO NOT do this.

Absolutely, dont deny it for one second. Its measly ''payback'' when for example you look as an employer at what you are paying in mindless parasitical levies for this and that. If business was all a bed of roses more would survive.
__________________

1) So here you are admitting to stealing from the NZ economy!

2) And here you are SLANDERING me, trying to imply, that I AM the one ripping the system off.
Robert Taylor
Hardcore Biker
♂
Bike: None
Location: New Plymouth
Posts: 975

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun
Poker poke what ever BUT

Robert, this is you admittiing to having double standards!
.

I think you should spare yourself further embarassment because frankly you are clutching at very thin straws and not making a whole load of sense. Dont start me on ripping off the system while you are standing on precariously thin ice.
At all times my line is support the NZ economy and therefore support our own workers.
That is enough said.
__________________

I am NOT ON THIN ICE AT ALL, perhaps you need to go and look at all the bullshit invoices for the product that you purchased through the USA a while ago, WITH FALSE invoice ammounts, for TAX reasons

If you are going to preach and try to pretend to perfect, you better be

**BIGBOSSMAN** · 25th July 2008, 17:07

Originally Posted by cs363

why don't people try and support their local dealers where possible (assuming they are providing you with good service etc) and perhaps buy their kids clothes, shoes etc offshore as there are also savings to be made on these items?

Ah yes, but instead of putting bike-related businesses under the cosh that will drive business away from clothes and shoe shops - you see there isn't an easy answer, NZ has always been a cut-price economy when it comes to shopping (think The Warehouse - where everybody gets a bargain) and it's also very much human nature to get the best deal possible.
I wouldn't want to be in any sort of retail at the moment, the private import market has yet to really take off and when it does it's going to get real ugly for business owners here...

ps Shaun and Robert stop the shitfight eh!