$92,000

[marty]

I Admit, it was 6 months ago when I was sniffing round CTC and Eagle and got that 600 figure. Although I'm still quite shocked to hear people with 220 hours will be on the 1900's.... I suppose they make up the top 1%, so like I said before, just because 1 or 2 do, doesn't mean everyone will... and I'd love to know how they're going to get the requirements for an ATPL flight test... but I suppose the industry is changing.

Yea guys with 1500tt and a basic instrument rating have been getting in for a while now. The training captains tell me the "Official minimum" is supposed to be 700 total and 100 multi, but those numbers seem to be only guidelines now. One of them has been hounding me to send my CV in, but I wanna get some more GA time and open more doors.

As for CTC's Pilapt, I found it to be a joke really. Some aspects were more intensive than what I went through for the Airforce and others were just too... odd... As for the industries attitude towards them, I suppose it will change soon, most of the the guys I've spoken to who are against CTC are all reaching retirement, and like myself believe a pilot should have some proper experience before jumping into an Airliner. It just makes me nervous to think how much experience people miss out on if they don't do some real flying post CPL. I'm talking loading a bunch of mates into a PA-28 and heading to the South Island for a few weeks, or flying tourists to Great Barrier and round corromandel. Some of the most important things about flying I picked up after I got my license, same could be said by most people who ride/drive. It's that experience from going out and doing it your on your own that separates people from the text book jockies.

your arguement is typical from someone that hasn't got in to the airline with low time. did you know that every FO, and every captain currently working at Easyjet, has been trained by CTC?

if the CP of AirNZ can see the value in training people to fly jets from day 1, surely there is something in it?

Air NZ is has also recently placed low-time CPL/MEIR 'cadets' at CTC for the CRM course, with the emphasis on flying the sim and the deathstars in a 2-crew environment. they will go to 2nd officer postions on the 777/747, on a training salary, then back to eag as an FO.

there is still plenty happening out there - although maybe you were told to go away from eag and ctc for a reason? why did you go to the selection process at the airforce and ctc then not take them up on their offer?

and for flying upwards of 40000hrs/year at ctc, they have a pretty good safety record.

[Swoop]

Have (literally) just finshed having a chat with a FO from wings of the nation.
They are crying out for FO's. Desperate shortage, etc ,etc.

[Dakara]

your arguement is typical from someone that hasn't got in to the airline with low time.

Well if you want to attack me personally I suppose that's your choice... but you make a lot of assumptions.

did you know that every FO, and every captain currently working at Easyjet, has been trained by CTC?

Like I care about Easyjet. My whole point is pinholing training for a specific Airline (be it Easyjet or Eagle) has the downside that not all candidates will be successful with said airline, and no one else will touch them. Yes, it appears Eagle is coming round to CTC, but what of the guys there who Eagle don't take? Do you think a 135 operation wants to take someone who's been trained to fly a Jet? Air Nelson is an example who love the 135 pilots, especially from GBA and Mountain Air as they have operational experience

if the CP of AirNZ can see the value in training people to fly jets from day 1, surely there is something in it?

Air NZ is has also recently placed low-time CPL/MEIR 'cadets' at CTC for the CRM course, with the emphasis on flying the sim and the deathstars in a 2-crew environment. they will go to 2nd officer postions on the 777/747, on a training salary, then back to eag as an FO.

Yes, I've have heard Captain Dave Morgan's opinion on it, and Air NZ's plan to start their own Cadetship. Once again, I wonder if this is another version of the "Multi-crew License" where you spend your career as a Co. No idea, will see where it goes.

there is still plenty happening out there - although maybe you were told to go away from eag and ctc for a reason? why did you go to the selection process at the airforce and ctc then not take them up on their offer?

and for flying upwards of 40000hrs/year at ctc, they have a pretty good safety record.

Eagle/CTC never told me to get lost, thats your assumption. I phoned CTC about an APC course they offer when I was considering my next move, and was told for a mere $15k I could gaurentee myself a job at Eagle... so I phone Eagle and they say "Umm, no we never said that, we told them we'd consider it but have decided against it"(remember this was atleast 6 months ago). I phoned CTC back saying Eagle disagreed with their statement and was told "Yea, we're not sure whats happening with them so are in negotiation with Air Nelson and Mt Cook" which I thought strange as while someone with 200 hours could fly for eagle under part 125, they can't operate under Part 121 even as a co.

So my problem with CTC was that they were making promises to me not backed up by the Airlines. I don't care about CTC in the UK, I know how succesful they are there, all I care about is here. And at the time of making these enquiries I wasn't elligable for anything outside Part 135 as I only had about 60 hours twin.

As for the pilapt. I went through the Airforce selection back when labour scrapped the Skyhawks and the Airforce didn't need anymore pilots (about 10 years ago?). Never went through with the once at CTC as I decided I didn't wanna work for them. But I know a few of there former instructors who clued me up on the tests.

Honestly though each to his own. I'm against CTC because of my experience with them. Personally, the idea of 200 hour pilots flying Airliners is one i'm afraid of as a lot of experience is lost. But as you say, things are changing. Why am I not in an Airline yet? Because right now I have limited choices, some of which would bond me for X years. So I'm happy to kick it in 119, 142 and 135 ops for another year or 2 and open as many doors as I can. A good mate of mine left a GA job with 3000 hours, over 2000 of which were Multi ATO time, and the worlds his Oyster. He's now flying Jets when others who appeared "Ahead of him" are still serving out their bonds.

Anyway, this has really gone OT, I'm sure CTC will work out for you, and you'll find yourself in a 1900. That route just wasn't for me... Each to his own I guess.

[jrandom]

Jesus H. Christ, and I thought IT was full of acronyms and jargon.

[imdying]

with the emphasis on flying the sim and the deathstars

Ok, wtf is that?? Whatever it is I wanna job flying it... imdying 'Deathstar pilot'

[Pussy]

Jesus H. Christ, and I thought IT was full of acronyms and jargon.

Aviation is full of TLAs (three letter abbreviations)

[Dakara]

Ok, wtf is that?? Whatever it is I wanna job flying it... imdying 'Deathstar pilot'

DA42 Twinstar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_DA42

[jrandom]

DA42 Twinstar

"Gearboxes must be replaced every 300 hours, which means that gearbox replacement, amortized over the life of the engine, amounts to over 100 dollars per hour of operation."

What the hell? Do they cut the gears from wedges of camembert?

[R6_kid:Me]

"Gearboxes must be replaced every 300 hours, which means that gearbox replacement, amortized over the life of the engine, amounts to over 100 dollars per hour of operation."

What the hell? Do they cut the gears from wedges of camembert?

I dont think the gearbox on my R6 lasted that long!?

[Dakara]

"Gearboxes must be replaced every 300 hours, which means that gearbox replacement, amortized over the life of the engine, amounts to over 100 dollars per hour of operation."

What the hell? Do they cut the gears from wedges of camembert?

In all honesty I know virtually nothing about them as I've never flown one. From a students point of view however they're great as they're cheap. Your average light training twin (BE76 Duchess is a common one) will cost a student about $440/hr whereas I've heard the Twinstar costs about $200/hr... which seems a bit odd given the gearbox cost.

But I'm hearing rumours about the engine manufacturer going bust and people not being able to get parts... just word of mouth stuff, but the gearbox replacement every 300 hours would be tricky if you cant get hold of one!! But in Aviation terms, they're a very young Aircraft. To put things into perspective, they were first certified in 2004. The piper Aztec, PA-23 250 which I fly was first developed in the 1950's, and the model I fly in the 1960's. While most Aztecs round the country are dead or dying the one I'm in is still going strong and is one of the most stable Aircraft I've flown. So the Twinstars are only at the start of their lives, and if they're popular enough to keep going, will work out the kinks over the years with new models.

[marty]

i'm not attacking you personally - i'm just well aware of the arguements. i actually work for the koru now, and an FO in a 1900 is probably not where i'll end up. i have all my atpls, and plenty of time, so i'm looking a bit further than that....

[jrandom]

I dont think the gearbox on my R6 lasted that long!?

300 hours?

Even if you only used the bike on the open road and averaged 100kph, that's only 30,000km on the clock.

Obviously it's not impossible for sufficient abuse and clumsy inputs to destroy a brand new sportbike gearbox in that space of time, but I'd hardly expect aeroplane mechanicals to be that fragile.

I guess I'm wrong...

[R6_kid:Me]

300 hours?

Even if you only used the bike on the open road and averaged 100kph, that's only 30,000km on the clock.

Obviously it's not impossible for sufficient abuse and clumsy inputs to destroy a brand new sportbike gearbox in that space of time, but I'd hardly expect aeroplane mechanicals to be that fragile.

I guess I'm wrong...

Heh, it managed a tad over 30,000km of me owning it before the gearbox popped, but that particulat model had a known weakness in that department - so it wasnt all my fault!

Aircraft engines are generally run at set rpm's/loads and therefore give relatively reliable fuel consumption rates and forecast maintenance schedules are set up accordingly. However if you compare the maintenance schedule on an RNZAF CT-4E with that of a Cessna 182 you'll quickly see that 'thrashing' them requires a lot more maintenance and shortens the time that the aircraft spend in the air between full overhauls.

[marty]

probably one of the reasons Thierlet (gearbox manufacturer) has gone bust.

a deathstar with lycoming O360's (avgas engines) in it will cruise at over 200kts.

[Dakara]

i'm not attacking you personally - i'm just well aware of the arguements. i actually work for the koru now, and an FO in a 1900 is probably not where i'll end up. i have all my atpls, and plenty of time, so i'm looking a bit further than that....

All good mate. I'd say we're in similar situations just taking different routes. I've got the ATPL's and the Multi, just need to get the ATO time up as the places I'm looking at require previous ATO experience. But I should have a start round October flying twins under 135. Love GA flying, just wish I loved the salaries

probably one of the reasons Thierlet (gearbox manufacturer) has gone bust.

a deathstar with lycoming O360's (avgas engines) in it will cruise at over 200kts.

Damn! The Aztruck wont get near that with IO-540's. Course she weights a fair bit more