Millie Elder in court on P supply charges

[scumdog]

Drugs are cool.

C'mon, if yer gonna troll try and be subtle eh??

[skidMark]

while I agree with the basis of your post, what has being pretty, rich and white got to do with anything?

It is everything to do with it, white people are the majority in this country over polynesians and maoris. probably about 50% are white and 20% or less or maori or polynesian ethnicity? (just guessing)

Yet its about 80% of inmates are maori or polynesian (once again guessing on percentage, i cant give anything precise)

so yes, the pretty little white rich girl doesnt exactly fit your typical drug seller/ crim.

[brendonjw]

So shes the only one being charged with supplying P right now?? I mean she is the only one in the papers about it. YES it is definitly wrong and she should get whatever the court dishes out to her (which will probably be less than what she deserves) but really, the only reason shes in the papers is cause she has some semblance to fame which is a rather lame excuse to be putting it in there if you ask me, if they are going to name and shame one person for it (because they are apparently famous) the should have a column in the paper each week for the charges for all people to do with P going through the courts that week, NAME and SHAME them ALL not just the famous

[Headbanger]

C'mon, if yer gonna troll try and be subtle eh??

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

[discotex]

I don't think it's BS at all. The fuse between her personal needs and wants and the consequences of her actions for people around her and the general public has tripped.

The same could be said for those caught speeding. Hardly see the same vitriol.

I'm not. There wouldn't be P labs without users, distributors and sellers. There wouldn't be a need for an under cover cop (who actually was much more, was one of those rough men who do indescribable things so you can sleep comfortably in your bed) to skulk about in the dark and get killed by multiple shots from an air rifle.

There's no link there and you know it. It's equal to blaming Toyota for the carnage on our roads.

Or, you could blame prohibition. If the P users were getting their supply from a chemist the cops wouldn't be having to put trackers on their cars.

There's more money in the P economy than our manufacturing export businesses. There's schools and hospitals and decent pay for cops and nurses and doctors being shot up and smoked.

All the more reason to tax the industry.

I have no quarrel with your argument for treating sick people. P user/dealers have gone beyond sick and into the realm of the irredeemable.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that then.

It's not about Elder (or anyone else) using P, it's now about her "selling" P to other children/people!

What she does to her self is her own problem to deal with and if she gets help with it, fine by me...."BUT" I don't want to have to pay for it!

Just to clarify, are you ok with ACC and free medical treatment for drinkers/smokers/obese people instead?

Destroying other kids lives for her own benefit and habit should get her a death penalty, or in (non PC) NZ, a "real life sentence".

As I've said before, most of these kids lives were ruined long before they find drugs. Rape, abuse, violent families, etc are what largely cause kids to turn to drugs in the first place. Blaming the dealers does nothing to solve the issue.

If you do your research you'll find most users actively seek out the drugs. They're not sucked in by this imaginary pusher type dealer.

Fact. Prior to my spinal cord injury I was a charge nurse on the secure side of the inpatient psychiatric unit.
Fact. Ive seen the results of P users within that setting. None of it I really want to repeat here.
Fact. P is a shyte substance.
Fact. Its produced by shyte people.
Fact. Its sold by shyte people, which...
Fact. ...turns users into addicts and increases the % of shyte within the population.
New fact. Anyone who thinks otherwise to the above is an idiot or has there head in the sand.

discotex, you understand now? If not please reread this post until you do.

I understand where your opinion comes from. It's the same place many hospital workers come from with bikers. They see a disproportionate picture of the worst carnage involved and a disproportionate number of no-hope situations and think that's a balanced view.

Go spend some time talking to your local health board drug and alcohol team and hear how positive they are (given the almost non-existent funding) and see some real stats on treatment outcomes for their patients over the 2-10 year range.

If you still feel the same way we can pick up the debate then eh? Clearly we're on opposite sides of the fence and no-one is moving.

[discotex]

So then Millie Holmes should have the book thrown at her, right?

What did she do other than possession for supply?

[scumdog]

What did she do other than possession for supply?

Yeah - and that's fugall innit???

[Max Preload]

True... but that is because they have too much spare time on their hands. Keep em busy...breaking rocks etc etc, knacker them out so they are too stuffed to even talk when they finish....

I dislike the concept of strong, fit criminals.

What did she do other than possession for supply?

That's not enough? Do you know nothing about methamphetamine?

[oldrider]

(A) Just to clarify, are you ok with ACC and free medical treatment for drinkers/smokers/obese people instead?

(B) As I've said before, most of these kids lives were ruined long before they find drugs. Rape, abuse, violent families, etc are what largely cause kids to turn to drugs in the first place. Blaming the dealers does nothing to solve the issue.

If you do your research you'll find most users actively seek out the drugs. They're not sucked in by this imaginary pusher type dealer.

(A) If they have been paying their taxes, ACC premiums etc and if they qualify, why not, they are paying their way. (currently)

I believe ACC etc should be privatised and I don't mind if people want to drink, smoke or become obese, that is their prerogative.(it's a free world)

If they want/need help let them seek it from the people who provide that kind of help.

It's surely their own choice, they don't need the nanny state telling them when to wipe their own arse!

(B) Forget about the "Drugs" deal with the rape, abuse, violent families etc effectively and remove the cause for turning to the drugs.

Eliminate the "imaginary" pusher type dealers by removing the need for the "market".

Get the government back into doing the basics of governing and out of our bloody lives!

Today government "interference" in our freedoms is the biggest growth industry in New Zealand.

That is the root cause of most of this countries current ills. (IMHO)

Have another look at the policies here, www.libertarianz.org.nz they reflect quite a lot of "my" political views. John.

[discotex]

Yeah - and that's fugall innit???

That's not enough? Do you know nothing about methamphetamine?

[discotex]

Have another look at the policies here, www.libertarianz.org.nz they reflect quite a lot of "my" political views. John.

They look good. Where government should fit in is always an interesting line to place. Definitely agree with the personal accountability approach (as long as you're not directly hurting someone else).

[jrandom]

I don't personally know any users (at least none that I'm aware of hahahaha), but I'm keen to hear your thoughts... How do they appear noticeably stupider? Stupid decisions? Can't do math? One track minds?

Short attention spans, a general lowering of IQ, they're either 'up' (twitchy, happy, energetic, but oddly enough never really accomplishing anything of value, unless they happen to direct their mania into some form of manual labour) or 'down' (grumpy, sullen, silent, just wanting to curl up and face the wall and sleep).

After some years, they just become dumber. You'll send them a simple email and they'll misread it, you'll have to repeat things to them occasionally, basic arithmetic becomes a challenge, etc. It's worse for people who started out stupid, of course. Folk who start out intelligent seem to just kinda lose the edge off it.

People under the influence of methamphetamine appear to think that they're witty and charming and gorgeous, but in fact they just spout a lot of shit very noisily and disconnectedly - good luck ever getting them to follow a complex train of thought. I'd hate to try and get any work done under the influence of it. (No, I haven't ever tried it myself.)

Then again, everyone's different in how they respond to it.

I know a guy who pretty much lives on a cocktail of P and dak (it seems to add up to normalcy) and functions just fine. No issues. But his wife never had the good sense to realise that she shouldn't do the same, and now she's basically ready for the loony bin. Even when she's sober, she's obviously not the full quid - incapable of rational thought, emotionally unstable... she wasn't like that years ago.

Read up on the medical literature - methamphetamine does indeed cause measurable and irreversible CNS damage.

[marioc]

fucking typical drug experts everywhere that have never tried the stuff

[Max Preload]

I believe ACC etc should be privatised...

Now, I'm about as right wing as you can get on most issues, but I disagree with privatising ACC. I do however feel that opening the industry up to competition (again...) is the right thing to do so people can choose the cover that best suits them, compare premiums and value between providers and have it spelled out in black and white in their policy documents what they are actually entitled to BEFORE they need it. People who are too stupid and/or lazy to do that will probably get what they deserve and simply stay with ACC.

(B) Forget about the "Drugs" deal with the rape, abuse, violent families etc effectively and remove the cause for turning to the drugs.

I think you'll find it's largely the other way around - drugs are the precurser to much of the violence these days. It used to be just booze but now there's all sorts of mind altering substances people are abusing.

[inlinefour]

fucking typical drug experts everywhere that have never tried the stuff

Reading the literature makes you wise, trying the drug just makes you stupid. Did you not understand jrandoms post?