Millie Elder in court on P supply charges

[alanzs]

kings cross...drugs are illegal there too eh?

it made all the difference eh...

people got to make choices....

Exactly. Freedom isn't for everyone. It takes an educated populace, something most governments do the least they can to support. Many cultures aggressively attack those who attempt to better themselves or think freely (Tall Poppies?). Questioning authority is not allowed in many places. It's vehemently discouraged by the media. The headbanging idiots find this kind of freedom extremely threatening. It would make them take responsibility for their actions, a very, very scary thought for the uninformed, uneducated and unintelligent. Without the external controls all the personal freedom laws exert, they inevitably feel very out of control and threatened.

[jrandom]

That would be a start. I guess it would depend on what you mean by prohibition works. If it is the reduction in use, cost, and availability, it doesn't work. The DEA, the largest Drug Enforcement Agency in the world, has said this. There are more drugs available now than ever before.

That's true.

I read a fascinating article today which touched to a significant extent on the issues posed by prohibition. Well worth reading by anyone in this thread, I'd say.

Perhaps I should have said that prohibition works, but often at a prohibitive cost, and to counterproductive ends.

The key is probably an intelligent and measured case-by-case approach. Unfortunately, history tells us that humanity isn't very good at that.

[Headbanger]

Thread has taken a remarkably stupid direction, Society can't handle itself when drugs are banned, Imagine the mayhem if we legalise it and then just talk the addicts about their issues.

LMFAO.

Dumb dumb dumb and dumb, With is of course why it will never happen.

As it is anyone can already exorcise their personal choice and take drugs, Thats no reason for society to condone it.


Still waiting to hear about these countries that have legalised drugs with a positive outcome.

[alanzs]

That's true.

I read a fascinating article today which touched to a significant extent on the issues posed by prohibition. Well worth reading by anyone in this thread, I'd say.

Perhaps I should have said that prohibition works, but often at a prohibitive cost, and to counterproductive ends.

The key is probably an intelligent and measured case-by-case approach. Unfortunately, history tells us that humanity isn't very good at that.

Great article. Just another example of the terrible costs the "drug war" is taking on many societies. It's the prohibitive and counterproductive part that needs to be recognized. Who really profits and benefits from the "drug war?" Certainly not the populace at large. Living in fear is a great way to control people. Look at the US as a perfect example.

I thought the article I had posted earlier in the thread was pretty well thought out. I especially liked how it said the criminal justice system is there to protect us from other, not ourselves. Right on.

And, you are right about history...

[jrandom]

Still waiting to hear about these countries that have legalised drugs with a positive outcome.

United States of America. The repeal of Prohibition in 1933.



And alcohol is one of the more socially destructive drugs.

[Patrick]

I read somewhere that China has a good policy on drugs - convict, take out the back and shoot em - then forward the bill for the bullet to the family.

As a direct result of a "harsh sentence / penalty" they don't have too much of a problem with drugs..... Might make a bit and ship it off shore, but not much of a problem locally......

BUt then again, the bourbon is kicking in.....

[Hinny]

Yes it does.

What doesn't work is tarring all psychoactive substances with the same brush.

Legalise caffeine, cannabis, mushrooms and cocaine.

Ban alcohol, methamphetamine, opiates and tobacco.

Sorted.

I'm interested to know why you would ban opiates.

Heroin for instance is not physiologically harmful whereas alcohol and tobacco attack every organ in your body.

[alanzs]

United States of America. The repeal of Prohibition in 1933.



And alcohol is one of the more socially destructive drugs.

And they have 42,000+ alcohol related deaths a year. I guess it could be worse.
Nobody has ever died from cannabis use, but that's illegal. The DEA has said in their own report that the "Gateway Theory" isn't valid, but the war goes on, and on, and on. At least in 12 states in the US, cannabis is available for medicinal use. I guess the people have realized that denying someone with a terminal illness some relief is called compassion. Some sanity may be starting to appear on the horizon.

Here's an interesting link for more information about the drug war: http://www.csdp.org/

[Patrick]

Nobody has ever died from cannabis use,

Thats interesting...

So a guy off his face on dak who crashed his car didn't die from cannabis use? Two cases here in the last couple of years....

Suppose so, depends on how ya look at it.....

[Hinny]

As it is anyone can already exorcise their personal choice and take drugs, Thats no reason for society to condone it.


Still waiting to hear about these countries that have legalised drugs with a positive outcome.

People are not allowed to exercise their personal choice to take drugs in this country.
I think the call to have society condone drugs is entirely rational.
Treating the use of drugs as acceptable, forgivable or harmless would perhaps return us to the state that we were in before. Before that American dickhead preached that smoking marijuana would turn you in to an axe wielding homicidal maniac and got drugs banned. That man who started the whole downward spiral.
When the use of drugs was legal we didn't have the problems that we have today and making them legal in the future is not likely to either given the results of the British trial on legalising Heroin.

There is one country along with Holland where the use of drugs is or has been either legalised or overlooked, with positive outcomes.
Oregon in the US legalised the use of canabis with positive outcomes.

[jrandom]

I'm interested to know why you would ban opiates.

Physiological dependency. Addiction forms fast and hard and users lose their ability to choose whether they take it or not - they need it.

And I don't think that substances like that should be used without medical supervision.

Ever been in a room full of junkies freebasing morphine and chewing their fingernails with impatience to IV it? It's mildly disturbing.

And bear in mind that even alcohol, which is quite poisonous, doesn't have the fine line between fun and fatality that heroin does. There is not an order of magnitude difference between a recreational and a lethal dose.

[jrandom]

... in 12 states in the US, cannabis is available for medicinal use. I guess the people have realized that denying someone with a terminal illness some relief is called compassion.

Well... here's a first-person perspective on that subject. Make of it what you will.

[jrandom]

So a guy off his face on dak who crashed his car didn't die from cannabis use?

Uh, no, he died from injuries sustained in a car crash.

Of course, driving a car while under the influence of any psychoactive substance is a dreadful idea.

However, no, cannabis isn't toxic (particularly if taken via non-smoking means). There are no recorded instances of death through overdose.

[McJim]

I thought this was a repost...then I saw the news....Silly Millie.

[Headbanger]

There is one country along with Holland where the use of drugs is or has been either legalised or overlooked, with positive outcomes.

If your going to make these claims can we have a bit of detail/data to back them up?

Not particularly interested in cannabis use though, Lets discuss the good hard stuff that ruins lives.

I got a friend or two from way back enslaved to heroin, charming folk, Totally mind-fucked and living in hell, they are probably open to your preaching of drugs as acceptable, forgiveable or harmless, Though I bet like fuck they wouldn't want you preaching to their kids.